Cesspit - How much hassle?

[DonkeyApple]

silentbrown said:

119 said:

Cess pits should not be emptied that often, if at all.

Assuming it is working properly.

Cess pit is not a septic tank! Cess pit doesn't have any outflow - it just fills up.

Yup. The trouble is that EAs and vendors have a habit of calling septic tanks cesspits but 'accident'.

Solicitor can ask for copies of invoices for the cesspit emptying and a survey can be done to ensure it is sound. The conveyancer should be all over this given there is a watercourse right next to it. It's one of those things that is either a non issue or an expensive disaster.

[bennno]

Mark Lewis said:

He has said every 6 months but is that right? As a cesspit has no outlet at all (compared to a septic tank) surely it feels that faster than that – either we’ve just two people

We get our cesspit half emptied every 3 weeks, 1 tanker full, 4 at the house - everybody minding water use.

[Lotobear]

A cesspit is usually a sign that the ground is clay or otherwise unable to sustain a soakaway system for a septic tank or packaged treatment system. Best avoided IMO unless there is absolutely no alternative

[DonkeyApple]

Lotobear said:

A cesspit is usually a sign that the ground is clay or otherwise unable to sustain a soakaway system for a septic tank or packaged treatment system. Best avoided IMO unless there is absolutely no alternative

I wouldn't avoid just because there is a cesspit. There are very many properties in the U.K. which aren't mains connected and can't be and it's the septic tank system which is heavily under fire and only going to get worse. The key is to have the conveyancer to their basic job and absolutely ensure that it is fit for purpose. The apparent concern in this particular thread is that the OP is potentially listening to the EA who is manifestly to be ignored in such matters as they are not only not remotely on the hook but financially incentivised to only give 'guidance' in one direction. If the cesspit is all kosher then the only concern is the cost of operation ongoing.

[Ranger 6]

bennno said:

Mark Lewis said:

He has said every 6 months but is that right? As a cesspit has no outlet at all (compared to a septic tank) surely it feels that faster than that – either we’ve just two people

We get our cesspit half emptied every 3 weeks, 1 tanker full, 4 at the house - everybody minding water use.

We've got a septic tank and empty every 2 years (3 pers) - next door has a cess pit and empties every 4-6 weeks (they say) it's £300 to empty it - 2 pers in the house.

When we bought the. place 5 years ago, the seller had it emptied and inspected - old but functional (and compliant).

[Lotobear]

DonkeyApple said:

Lotobear said:

A cesspit is usually a sign that the ground is clay or otherwise unable to sustain a soakaway system for a septic tank or packaged treatment system. Best avoided IMO unless there is absolutely no alternative

I wouldn't avoid just because there is a cesspit. There are very many properties in the U.K. which aren't mains connected and can't be and it's the septic tank system which is heavily under fire and only going to get worse. The key is to have the conveyancer to their basic job and absolutely ensure that it is fit for purpose. The apparent concern in this particular thread is that the OP is potentially listening to the EA who is manifestly to be ignored in such matters as they are not only not remotely on the hook but financially incentivised to only give 'guidance' in one direction. If the cesspit is all kosher then the only concern is the cost of operation ongoing.

'unless absolutely necessary' were the operative words. I know from surveying properties for over 40 years that cesspits are a massive turn off for many purchasers and make houses very hard to sell.

[Mark Lewis]

So this is definitely a cesspit - its with a few meters of the stream so no where for a drain off.

So it sounds like - if it works fine, the only hassle is having to get it drained every 4-6 weeks. If it leaks or is crazy old....then the seller will need to fix as leaking into the stream would be illegal anyway.

So - our plan would be to switch to a water treatment plant ASAP - I'm guessing 10-15k tops including filling in the old pit and then I can discharge into the stream with the right permissions.

So if I can get a bit off the house to compensate - no huge drama?

For reference - the pit is under the patio table area, Logistically - how does any work even get done there? You can't get a digger to that spot - the front lawn would be a good spot for the water treatment plant but is re-piping to there going to be a nightmare? A digger can easily get on the front lawn.

Edited by Mark Lewis on Friday 5th July 11:44

[Lotobear]

First thing I would do is approach the EA about a discharge consent to that watercourse and see if they would grant one. It's curious that someone in the past chose a cesspit when they had access to a watercourse for a septic tank outfall.

Secondly you need to establish the invert of the inlet to the cesspit and check you have sufficient fall for a gravity drain at 1:40 to the proposed location of your packaged treatment unit at it's required invert/inlet depth.

10-15k sounds a bit optimistic given all the unknowns

Unless you have good knowledge of the issues I would engage a drainage engineer to explore the feasibility for you

[bennno]

Id echo the comment just before its not clear why you'd have ever put a cess pit in that location over a septic tank.

If its a septic tank it must meet standards, its not permitted any more to discharge to a river so you'd be in to >15k of cost to add a treatment plant.

Id be asking for confirmation of the size and how often its being emptied - we will a 2200 gallon / 9000 litre tank once every 3 weeks.

The environment agency wont grant discharge permits unless the stream runs all year round and only if it isnt a groundwater zone, so that'd be a big think to check. Can be done on line.

We are in clay, about a mile from the beach but in a source protection zone as water here turns to drinking water elsewhere.

Where's the property as the rules are even more strict in wales?

[Mark Lewis]

Ok. Turns out the seller is a bit of a Muppet. It is a septic tank not a pit. Although in that location, no idea where the drainage field would be and he doesn’t even think he has one! Obviously a survey will uncover all this stuff, but I am trying to avoid getting too deep on this if it’s going to be dealbreaker stuff.

Is it possible that it drains straight into the stream, as was allowed in years gone by, and has never been updated?

[DonkeyApple]

Mark Lewis said:

Ok. Turns out the seller is a bit of a Muppet. It is a septic tank not a pit. Although in that location, no idea where the drainage field would be and he doesn’t even think he has one! Obviously a survey will uncover all this stuff, but I am trying to avoid getting too deep on this if it’s going to be dealbreaker stuff.

Is it possible that it drains straight into the stream, as was allowed in years gone by, and has never been updated?

Not a muppet, just hoping to get away with swerving their tab. EA is the obviously a .

The age of the system might preclude you from the General Binding regs (conveyancer's responsibility) but septic tanks are a really hot topic now and even if fully compliant will cause big issues when selling unless you can find a muppet or manage to con an unsuspecting victim into believing it is a cesspit.

It will almost certainly be flowing into a drainage area and then into the watercourse. We're lucky with our geology in the Cotswolds in that nearly every time the flow is straight into brash and the limestone and gone forever even if there is a water course nearby.

You do need a lot of land and in the right place for a bio cell system. Costs around here are closer to £40-50k by the time all the teeth sucking has stopped.

I'm of the view that vendors have to wear all of this as it simply isn't the buyer's problem or responsibility but the job of the vendor to ensure their home is fit for sale rather than try to grift a con.

The rules and regs on septic tanks is only going to get worse and worse so you really need to ensure the vendor resolves the issue suitably.

As for the EA, if they are local then there is absolutely zero chance they did not know and zero chance they were not aware of the ramifications.

[bennno]

Mark Lewis said:

Ok. Turns out the seller is a bit of a Muppet. It is a septic tank not a pit. Although in that location, no idea where the drainage field would be and he doesn’t even think he has one! Obviously a survey will uncover all this stuff, but I am trying to avoid getting too deep on this if it’s going to be dealbreaker stuff.

Is it possible that it drains straight into the stream, as was allowed in years gone by, and has never been updated?

Thats the most likely, it means it cant be sold until fixed.

[Lotobear]

Mark Lewis said:

Ok. Turns out the seller is a bit of a Muppet. It is a septic tank not a pit. Although in that location, no idea where the drainage field would be and he doesn’t even think he has one! Obviously a survey will uncover all this stuff, but I am trying to avoid getting too deep on this if it’s going to be dealbreaker stuff.

Is it possible that it drains straight into the stream, as was allowed in years gone by, and has never been updated?

I would say it's a racing certainty that it goes into the stream

...is it in Wales?

https://naturalresourceswales.gov.uk/permits-and-p...

Edited by Lotobear on Friday 5th July 14:01

[indigochim]

Mark Lewis said:

]

Bottom left of your pic running to/from under the bridge looks to be a large diameter pipe is that not where it's going?

[Mark Lewis]

indigochim said:

Bottom left of your pic running to/from under the bridge looks to be a large diameter pipe is that not where it's going?

That carries power cables to the field this side of the bridge - there are some agricultural buildings with lighting etc

[Mark Lewis]

Lotobear said:

I would say it's a racing certainty that it goes into the stream

...is it in Wales?

https://naturalresourceswales.gov.uk/permits-and-p...

Edited by Lotobear on Friday 5th July 14:01

It is - I assume he'd not have been able to register it if it flowed to the stream??? So is it possible he just kept quiet about it? Seems odd given he knows a survey will pick it up and make the place unsellable.

[Tenacious]

I read the title and thought the general election thread is in NPE!

[Snow and Rocks]

Mark Lewis said:

It is - I assume he'd not have been able to register it if it flowed to the stream??? So is it possible he just kept quiet about it? Seems odd given he knows a survey will pick it up and make the place unsellable.

Not sure on the rules in Wales but our tank drains directly to a ditch and is fully registered with Scottish Water.

I thought it was totally illegal when I bought the place and planned to sort it out but was surprised to see the official paperwork in a folder on moving in.

[Lotobear]

Mark Lewis said:

Lotobear said:

I would say it's a racing certainty that it goes into the stream

...is it in Wales?

https://naturalresourceswales.gov.uk/permits-and-p...

Edited by Lotobear on Friday 5th July 14:01

It is - I assume he'd not have been able to register it if it flowed to the stream??? So is it possible he just kept quiet about it? Seems odd given he knows a survey will pick it up and make the place unsellable.

i'm not fully conversant with the Welsh Regs but if you look at the link I posted, it might possibly be okay if it's an existing discharge which has been in place since before 2010 but it might still need to be registered?

[Mr Magooagain]

Having now seen the photo my first thought is there any chance of, or historic flooding? How would flooding affect the existing system or a new one? Would there be ‘back up’ from any tank overflow pipe?