Viewed first house tonight - FTB
Discussion
NoelWatson said:
pablo said:
as someone trying to sell a house at the momnet, heres some advice. the person you are buying from will need to get a suitable amount from their home sale because to buy another property they will at best, only get a 75% LTV mortgage at the moment.
thus they need to have at least 25% of the value of the house they want to buy in equity and/or some cash to pay for the fees.
in my position, the house is on for £130K but selling at that price would only give us £35K to play with as we bought it for £100K and i think we have about £95K owing. So anyone offering less than £120K is gogin to get turned away, we are not desperate to move but would like to be closer to the city centre but we arent going to just accept the first offfer knowing that prices are a little higher where we intend to move.
in short, its all very well saying you will try to get £XXXK off the price but the lending market is so screwed at the moment that whilst you are in a good position with the deposit etc, most people with a house around the FTB price, will be relying on equity in order to move up the ladder. Unless the person is desperate to move for work/personal reasons, your plans to put in a cheeky offer will end in disappointment.
I'm interested in your logic. With the market falling at a fair rate, surely you want to be selling as soon as possible - chasing the market down will can only end in disaster?thus they need to have at least 25% of the value of the house they want to buy in equity and/or some cash to pay for the fees.
in my position, the house is on for £130K but selling at that price would only give us £35K to play with as we bought it for £100K and i think we have about £95K owing. So anyone offering less than £120K is gogin to get turned away, we are not desperate to move but would like to be closer to the city centre but we arent going to just accept the first offfer knowing that prices are a little higher where we intend to move.
in short, its all very well saying you will try to get £XXXK off the price but the lending market is so screwed at the moment that whilst you are in a good position with the deposit etc, most people with a house around the FTB price, will be relying on equity in order to move up the ladder. Unless the person is desperate to move for work/personal reasons, your plans to put in a cheeky offer will end in disappointment.
my point was that unless you have enough equity in the house you are selling or cash in the bank obviously) to cover the fact that a mortgage lender will at present only offer 75% LTV, you cant move, simple as that. therefore anyone putting in a silly offer will be politely refused. if the seller HAS to move for whatever reason then yes, they are more likely to accept the offer but even then its not guaranteed.
I am not chasing the market down, although my house is on the market, i am not selling unless i can cover that missing 25% which at present asking prices, i can not do...
...therefore i stay put, but the important thing to remember is that my house is ideally priced for FTBs but if i ant move on then i stay where i am meaning their logic of offering silly money wont work...
the houses we are looking at are about £175K, therefore to get a mortgage at the moment, we need to find £43K. if we sell the house for £120K, taking into account mortgage payments made to date, we get about £25K back....which isnt enough so we stay where we are and rethink our plans. as i said, i dont care really, although the house is for sale it suits us not to move hence the market stays as it is becuase second time buyers for want of a better phrase are stuck and there is nothing for first time buyers on the market bar thouse who have to move.
sorry i think i have repeate dmyself numerous times in this reply but i hope it helps!... put it this way, trying to sell a low value property at the moment isnt the problem, getting the cash to fill that 25% gap is!... i have no other assets to sell to make it up and in reality, wouldnt want to sell things just to move...
rah1888 said:
NoelWatson said:
rah1888 said:
harry miller said:
Incorrigible said:
Obviously completly your decision, but why are you buying now? It'll be another 20% cheaper this time next year (or you can get a bigger place for the same money)
My thoughts exactly. With the property market falling at almost record speed, why not sit back and wait?Surely you are risking your entire deposit (and more) with many analysts predicting >20% drop in '09. How many hours would you need to work to SAVE that money again?
The point I was trying to make is that I don't recall any predictions in January 2008 of 15% falls, which have been seen in many parts of the country. Therefore, why should their 2009 predictions be any more accurate?
Here are the TFS numbers from Jan 08
http://www.sprefs.com/UserFiles/Jan-08(2).pdf
So they were pricing falls of over 10% at the start of the year
RobboC said:
Another 20% off would frankly, destroy the market and the economy, and I can't see that happening, especially as whether you believe or not, houses are selling again. Not at huge rates, but better than August when all this kicked off.
If houses are selling better than August, why are the mortgage approvals at record lows, or are more people paying cash? Why can't you see 20% happening, or are you saying it will be more like 30+%?Edited by RobboC on Friday 9th January 12:14
sleep envy said:
NoelWatson said:
Will your flat still be "cheap" if you come to sell it in five years and the market is still down?
do you beleive the market will be deflated in 5 years time?RobboC said:
Well these 'ANALysts'are hardly worth listening too.
And I've heard the 'vested interest' thing thrown around sooo many times.
I think a lot of people don't realise what a massive effect the market has on so many things.
I work in the industry, and for our company of some 7 offices, I can factually tell you how our results have been.
Prices have come down anything from 4-25% on completed houses we have sold. However the majority of this was late November, and has slowed down since then.
Another 20% off would frankly, destroy the market and the economy, and I can't see that happening, especially as whether you believe or not, houses are selling again. Not at huge rates, but better than August when all this kicked off.
Glad to hear things are moving a bit now Rob! And I've heard the 'vested interest' thing thrown around sooo many times.
I think a lot of people don't realise what a massive effect the market has on so many things.
I work in the industry, and for our company of some 7 offices, I can factually tell you how our results have been.
Prices have come down anything from 4-25% on completed houses we have sold. However the majority of this was late November, and has slowed down since then.
Another 20% off would frankly, destroy the market and the economy, and I can't see that happening, especially as whether you believe or not, houses are selling again. Not at huge rates, but better than August when all this kicked off.
Edited by RobboC on Friday 9th January 12:14
Predicting the future of the property market is nigh on impossible, hence why analysts are not that useful. People buy and sell for a variety of different reasons, and I would say it's almost impossible to factor all these in to accurately predict the market.
I have spent 12 years involved in property, the last 4 of which with a PLC with a large research dept, who try to map future pricing out, frequesntly getting it wrong!
NoelWatson said:
RobboC said:
Another 20% off would frankly, destroy the market and the economy, and I can't see that happening, especially as whether you believe or not, houses are selling again. Not at huge rates, but better than August when all this kicked off.
If houses are selling better than August, why are the mortgage approvals at record lows, or are more people paying cash? Why can't you see 20% happening, or are you saying it will be more like 30+%?Edited by RobboC on Friday 9th January 12:14
Luke Pearson said:
Mr POD said:
mouseymousey said:
Why are you going back to view it with your parents?
Cut those apron strings!
Mine were fecking useless. No help at all. Cut those apron strings!
Check
Wiring system / fuse box age (always a good negotiation that one - rewiring cost us £1500 and THEN you need to redecorate EVERY room in the house
Last Boiler Service. (Our 1966 boiler finally threw in the towel after 10 years of us being in the house - £2500 for a new one)
Look in loft. Is there height for a loft conversation? (Spelling is wrong or is it ?)
Careful look at brickwork (that should take at least 10 mins)
Repointing cost me 6 months of weekends.
Look at roof - particular flat roofs - they last 10 years, 15 if lucky.
Careful look at windows - check they all open and close - be anal - OPEN them all. 5 of our PVC ones have had problems in the last 2 years, and I seem to remember we did not get cheap one's. We've replaced all the rotting wood one's over the last 10 years, but the mechanisms seem to rust dispite regular greasing (We are near the sea)
Find out about neighbours. Is next door a student rent or a deaf old lady with the Telly on full volume ?
Parents should know this stuff, but mine were useless.
Neighbours all seem to be families / couples - seem alright [no unkept front gardens and tatty houses and general tramps]
Neighbours are almost impossible to gauge. I thinking about all the neighbours I've had over 3 houses and 20 years, and I'd say avoid anyone that's OCD tidy. If the front garden is too prefect, is as worse than a few weeds.
NoelWatson said:
Will your flat still be "cheap" if you come to sell it in five years and the market is still down?
Yes because I doubt it will fall much in value from what I paid for it and in the meantime it will have earned a good income.NoelWatson said:
How does the rent compare to financing, maintenance etc?
It was bought mortgage free so there is no "financing" in that sense. The mainteance fee is £1200 per annum.Nolar Dog said:
mechsympathy said:
Nolar Dog said:
It was valued about 35k more than I paid for it.
How can it be "worth" more than you paid for it? Unless you've done a load of work or it's bucked the market...)
Anyway im back.
Viewing another property tonight, just keeping our options open at the moment. Tonights property was a new build in 2007, bought by the owner for 240k, repo property up at £169k but is will accept £160k.
4 Bed Link detached, fair bit of garden, obviously mint interior as new. but 80k less than when originally built is definately worth a look for investment for the future also.
Viewing another property tonight, just keeping our options open at the moment. Tonights property was a new build in 2007, bought by the owner for 240k, repo property up at £169k but is will accept £160k.
4 Bed Link detached, fair bit of garden, obviously mint interior as new. but 80k less than when originally built is definately worth a look for investment for the future also.
NoelWatson said:
rah1888 said:
NoelWatson said:
rah1888 said:
harry miller said:
Incorrigible said:
Obviously completly your decision, but why are you buying now? It'll be another 20% cheaper this time next year (or you can get a bigger place for the same money)
My thoughts exactly. With the property market falling at almost record speed, why not sit back and wait?Surely you are risking your entire deposit (and more) with many analysts predicting >20% drop in '09. How many hours would you need to work to SAVE that money again?
The point I was trying to make is that I don't recall any predictions in January 2008 of 15% falls, which have been seen in many parts of the country. Therefore, why should their 2009 predictions be any more accurate?
Here are the TFS numbers from Jan 08
http://www.sprefs.com/UserFiles/Jan-08(2).pdf
So they were pricing falls of over 10% at the start of the year
They seem to have been pretty close to the mark.
Nolar Dog said:
NoelWatson said:
Will your flat still be "cheap" if you come to sell it in five years and the market is still down?
Yes because I doubt it will fall much in value from what I paid for it and in the meantime it will have earned a good income.NoelWatson said:
How does the rent compare to financing, maintenance etc?
It was bought mortgage free so there is no "financing" in that sense. The mainteance fee is £1200 per annum.NoelWatson said:
Out of interest, why did you choose to invest in property rather than another asset class?
Because there are two things I know quite a bit about. Cars and property.I don't know enough about other things to invest in them.
The one I recently bought is in the same development as my existing flat, which makes things easier.
It's in a very well regarded development too and I liked it, so I bought it. [/victor kiam]
Luke Pearson said:
Anyway im back.
Viewing another property tonight, just keeping our options open at the moment. Tonights property was a new build in 2007, bought by the owner for 240k, repo property up at £169k but is will accept £160k.
4 Bed Link detached, fair bit of garden, obviously mint interior as new. but 80k less than when originally built is definately worth a look for investment for the future also.
new builds are always overpriced by about 10% so a true value on the original purcahse would e closer to £220. sounds good, try to put any "investment" thoughts to one side and just think "would i be happy living here for x years" where x is obviously in line with current job/personal plans. I hope it all works out for you!Viewing another property tonight, just keeping our options open at the moment. Tonights property was a new build in 2007, bought by the owner for 240k, repo property up at £169k but is will accept £160k.
4 Bed Link detached, fair bit of garden, obviously mint interior as new. but 80k less than when originally built is definately worth a look for investment for the future also.
pablo said:
NoelWatson said:
pablo said:
as someone trying to sell a house at the momnet, heres some advice. the person you are buying from will need to get a suitable amount from their home sale because to buy another property they will at best, only get a 75% LTV mortgage at the moment.
thus they need to have at least 25% of the value of the house they want to buy in equity and/or some cash to pay for the fees.
in my position, the house is on for £130K but selling at that price would only give us £35K to play with as we bought it for £100K and i think we have about £95K owing. So anyone offering less than £120K is gogin to get turned away, we are not desperate to move but would like to be closer to the city centre but we arent going to just accept the first offfer knowing that prices are a little higher where we intend to move.
in short, its all very well saying you will try to get £XXXK off the price but the lending market is so screwed at the moment that whilst you are in a good position with the deposit etc, most people with a house around the FTB price, will be relying on equity in order to move up the ladder. Unless the person is desperate to move for work/personal reasons, your plans to put in a cheeky offer will end in disappointment.
I'm interested in your logic. With the market falling at a fair rate, surely you want to be selling as soon as possible - chasing the market down will can only end in disaster?thus they need to have at least 25% of the value of the house they want to buy in equity and/or some cash to pay for the fees.
in my position, the house is on for £130K but selling at that price would only give us £35K to play with as we bought it for £100K and i think we have about £95K owing. So anyone offering less than £120K is gogin to get turned away, we are not desperate to move but would like to be closer to the city centre but we arent going to just accept the first offfer knowing that prices are a little higher where we intend to move.
in short, its all very well saying you will try to get £XXXK off the price but the lending market is so screwed at the moment that whilst you are in a good position with the deposit etc, most people with a house around the FTB price, will be relying on equity in order to move up the ladder. Unless the person is desperate to move for work/personal reasons, your plans to put in a cheeky offer will end in disappointment.
my point was that unless you have enough equity in the house you are selling or cash in the bank obviously) to cover the fact that a mortgage lender will at present only offer 75% LTV, you cant move, simple as that. therefore anyone putting in a silly offer will be politely refused. if the seller HAS to move for whatever reason then yes, they are more likely to accept the offer but even then its not guaranteed.
I am not chasing the market down, although my house is on the market, i am not selling unless i can cover that missing 25% which at present asking prices, i can not do...
...therefore i stay put, but the important thing to remember is that my house is ideally priced for FTBs but if i ant move on then i stay where i am meaning their logic of offering silly money wont work...
the houses we are looking at are about £175K, therefore to get a mortgage at the moment, we need to find £43K. if we sell the house for £120K, taking into account mortgage payments made to date, we get about £25K back....which isnt enough so we stay where we are and rethink our plans. as i said, i dont care really, although the house is for sale it suits us not to move hence the market stays as it is becuase second time buyers for want of a better phrase are stuck and there is nothing for first time buyers on the market bar thouse who have to move.
sorry i think i have repeate dmyself numerous times in this reply but i hope it helps!... put it this way, trying to sell a low value property at the moment isnt the problem, getting the cash to fill that 25% gap is!... i have no other assets to sell to make it up and in reality, wouldnt want to sell things just to move...
As a vendor it is entirely within your right to choose not to sell at an offered price, but the price itself will be set by the competition which will include people like you, people who have no mortgage, forced sellers through death, divorce and redundancy and so on.
Therefore your formula for your marginal price is personal to you and not good advice to an FTB.
To the OP, the advice above where you should start so low it is embarassing is good. The Estate Agent will manage the vendors expectations accordingly and as long as you aren't buying a unique house, there will be another one along anyway.
I am a bear, and sold up in early 2007, but even I am starting to look now, as forced sellers anticipate further market falls, or at special houses coming available.
At the end of the day, it's your home, so get that right, and if you can afford it through varying circumstances, there is no reason not to buy at a price you are comfortable with.
pablo said:
Luke Pearson said:
Anyway im back.
Viewing another property tonight, just keeping our options open at the moment. Tonights property was a new build in 2007, bought by the owner for 240k, repo property up at £169k but is will accept £160k.
4 Bed Link detached, fair bit of garden, obviously mint interior as new. but 80k less than when originally built is definately worth a look for investment for the future also.
new builds are always overpriced by about 10% so a true value on the original purcahse would e closer to £220. sounds good, try to put any "investment" thoughts to one side and just think "would i be happy living here for x years" where x is obviously in line with current job/personal plans. I hope it all works out for you!Viewing another property tonight, just keeping our options open at the moment. Tonights property was a new build in 2007, bought by the owner for 240k, repo property up at £169k but is will accept £160k.
4 Bed Link detached, fair bit of garden, obviously mint interior as new. but 80k less than when originally built is definately worth a look for investment for the future also.
scotal said:
Broccers said:
scotal said:
Broccers said:
elster said:
So you never are going to buy a house? Just in case you lose your job?
Or should he wait until he can buy a house for cash?
I think you are being a little silly here, read what I typed. Personally, I still live with my parents, have a 20k loan on my car which is now worth 10k so don't listen to my advice.Or should he wait until he can buy a house for cash?
Luke Pearson said:
Anyway im back.
Viewing another property tonight, just keeping our options open at the moment. Tonights property was a new build in 2007, bought by the owner for 240k, repo property up at £169k but is will accept £160k.
4 Bed Link detached, fair bit of garden, obviously mint interior as new. but 80k less than when originally built is definately worth a look for investment for the future also.
Which bank owns it now ? Make them an offer based on a 10 year fixed rate at today's currrent base rate for a laugh. Viewing another property tonight, just keeping our options open at the moment. Tonights property was a new build in 2007, bought by the owner for 240k, repo property up at £169k but is will accept £160k.
4 Bed Link detached, fair bit of garden, obviously mint interior as new. but 80k less than when originally built is definately worth a look for investment for the future also.
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