Treasury to close tax loopholes
Discussion
The Treasury unveiled a raft of tax avoidance measures which are expected to raise over £2 billion and protect a further £5 billion by 2015.
Do you think the government will ever close the loopholes that see millions of pounds float out of the country on a daily basis?
The truth is that this government shamefully has very little interest in challenging wealthy individuals and big business, who deprive our economy of tens of billions of pounds by dodging paying the taxes they owe.
Do you think the government will ever close the loopholes that see millions of pounds float out of the country on a daily basis?
The truth is that this government shamefully has very little interest in challenging wealthy individuals and big business, who deprive our economy of tens of billions of pounds by dodging paying the taxes they owe.
TheCoolerKing said:
The truth is that this government shamefully has very little interest in challenging wealthy individuals and big business, who deprive our economy of tens of billions of pounds by dodging paying the taxes they owe.
I'm not an apologist for the uber-wealthy, but it's worth saying that they are more than likely acting perfectly legally to reduce their tax burden. Also that they (the very wealthy) are probably contributing more in taxation and employment than most. Going after the wealthy is generally quite counter-productive.I doubt anybody with that amount of money acts without the best legal and accountancy advice and they are probably close to but the right side of the line.
They will hit the lower hanging fruit first; PAYE, small businesses, self employed where a regular BIK shakedown seems to be the norm.
They will hit the lower hanging fruit first; PAYE, small businesses, self employed where a regular BIK shakedown seems to be the norm.
Cogcog said:
I doubt anybody with that amount of money acts without the best legal and accountancy advice and they are probably close to but the right side of the line.
They will hit the lower hanging fruit first; PAYE, small businesses, self employed where a regular BIK shakedown seems to be the norm.
You saying the upper end of the scale are untouchable?They will hit the lower hanging fruit first; PAYE, small businesses, self employed where a regular BIK shakedown seems to be the norm.
TheCoolerKing said:
Cogcog said:
I doubt anybody with that amount of money acts without the best legal and accountancy advice and they are probably close to but the right side of the line.
They will hit the lower hanging fruit first; PAYE, small businesses, self employed where a regular BIK shakedown seems to be the norm.
You saying the upper end of the scale are untouchable?They will hit the lower hanging fruit first; PAYE, small businesses, self employed where a regular BIK shakedown seems to be the norm.
It would not encourage anyone in that bracket to move to this country, which seems like punishing success and rewarding laziness.
TheCoolerKing said:
Cogcog said:
I doubt anybody with that amount of money acts without the best legal and accountancy advice and they are probably close to but the right side of the line.
They will hit the lower hanging fruit first; PAYE, small businesses, self employed where a regular BIK shakedown seems to be the norm.
You saying the upper end of the scale are untouchable?They will hit the lower hanging fruit first; PAYE, small businesses, self employed where a regular BIK shakedown seems to be the norm.
Wealthy people use more sophisticated tax technology and are therefore unlikely to make errors - i.e. nothing to 'go after'.
If you make the UK unattractive to the wealthy, then the wealthy will leave. We'll be left with the students, who love working and paying for things.
NDA said:
TheCoolerKing said:
Cogcog said:
I doubt anybody with that amount of money acts without the best legal and accountancy advice and they are probably close to but the right side of the line.
They will hit the lower hanging fruit first; PAYE, small businesses, self employed where a regular BIK shakedown seems to be the norm.
You saying the upper end of the scale are untouchable?They will hit the lower hanging fruit first; PAYE, small businesses, self employed where a regular BIK shakedown seems to be the norm.
Wealthy people use more sophisticated tax technology and are therefore unlikely to make errors - i.e. nothing to 'go after'.
If you make the UK unattractive to the wealthy, then the wealthy will leave. We'll be left with the students, who love working and paying for things.
the top 5% of the earning population pay over 70% of the taxes anyway, I guess we should get them to work harder and smarter so we can all pay less 
...or force a few % of them to leave and go elsewhere whilst the rest of us pay another 5% income tax to make up for it
taxing the rich to pay for the everyone else is a fine balancing act, get it too harsh and we will all be even more worse off, I think that last happened in the 70s when the tax on the rich was through the roof
...or force a few % of them to leave and go elsewhere whilst the rest of us pay another 5% income tax to make up for it
taxing the rich to pay for the everyone else is a fine balancing act, get it too harsh and we will all be even more worse off, I think that last happened in the 70s when the tax on the rich was through the roof
Headline grabbing.
HMRC are ALWAYS fighting to close tax loopholes. However, it is THEY who create the loopholes in the first place - sometimes deliberately, often unintentionally.
As they attempt to "fix" gaps in their own legisltation, every year to create plenty more as new legislation is introduced. It's a never ending situation.
HMRC are ALWAYS fighting to close tax loopholes. However, it is THEY who create the loopholes in the first place - sometimes deliberately, often unintentionally.
As they attempt to "fix" gaps in their own legisltation, every year to create plenty more as new legislation is introduced. It's a never ending situation.
bogie said:
im sure we could spend 5 billion on a project to simplify the tax system
who made it so complext to start with ?!
what are these "loopholes" anyway....Id like to see if how I can pay less tax too
The system is complex because of history. We have had an Income Tax system for over 200 years. We have had Corporation Tax and Capital Gains Tax for almost 50 years. We have had Inheritance Tax or its predecessors for over 100 years. We have had National Insurance for over 100 years. We have had Excise Duties for almost 1,000 years. We have had VAT (and its sales/purchase tax ancestor) for over 100 years). who made it so complext to start with ?!
what are these "loopholes" anyway....Id like to see if how I can pay less tax too
Part of the complexity has arisen because of the need to plug gaps, ommssions and errors in original legislation. Tax legislation often starts off simple but grows more complex over time. Here is an interesting demonstration of this phenomenon-
Corporation Tax (i.e. a separate tax regime for the taxation of the profits of limited companies) was introduced in 1965. The initial legislation consisted of 41 Sections spread over 133 pages.
In 2010, changes to Corporation Tax are being introduced as a result of the Tax Simplification Project. The new "simplified" Corporation Tax legislation will consist of (wait for it), 2,897 Sections spread over 2,113 pages. A lot of this will be due to extensive anti-avoidance provisions.
It is a hopeless task to simplify tax.
Eric Mc said:
Headline grabbing.
HMRC are ALWAYS fighting to close tax loopholes. However, it is THEY who create the loopholes in the first place - sometimes deliberately, often unintentionally.
As they attempt to "fix" gaps in their own legisltation, every year to create plenty more as new legislation is introduced. It's a never ending situation.
This is the truth. It depends how you define "loophole"...the govt obviously puts tax incentives in place to encourage people to invest in the economy...EIS and VCT's being two of the better known but there are also others that are less well known. Higher rate tax payers frequently invest in these as when you are paying 40% tax it makes some sense. Depending on how you want to report it that could be seen as tax avoidance, tax mitigation or a loophole. HMRC are ALWAYS fighting to close tax loopholes. However, it is THEY who create the loopholes in the first place - sometimes deliberately, often unintentionally.
As they attempt to "fix" gaps in their own legisltation, every year to create plenty more as new legislation is introduced. It's a never ending situation.
Under Modern Monetary Theory in a fiat currency system the government does not need to tax anyone. They are not constrained by anything as they own the printing presses. All taxation serves to achieve is to create a value for the currency and absorb excess funds from the economy. So paying tax is pointless if it can be avoided.
Taxing the rich more in effect is to redistribute wealth, its got nothing to do with funding the government.
Just compare what Payroll taxes are against, dividend income, pension contributions, limited company expenses etc. There are plenty of ways of legally avoiding some tax if you set things up right. Its just that Joe Bloggs in employment has virtually no way to avoid anything and he gets hit by a freight train.
Flat taxes would be much fairer IMO even though perhaps not strictly speaking progressive.
Taxing the rich more in effect is to redistribute wealth, its got nothing to do with funding the government.
Just compare what Payroll taxes are against, dividend income, pension contributions, limited company expenses etc. There are plenty of ways of legally avoiding some tax if you set things up right. Its just that Joe Bloggs in employment has virtually no way to avoid anything and he gets hit by a freight train.
Flat taxes would be much fairer IMO even though perhaps not strictly speaking progressive.
Hmm...Mr Coolerking, I just checked your garage expecting to find a Clio.
I didn't
Seems a strange stance you have taken on this matter.
I'm sure if you want to pay a little extra HMG will accept it.
Loophole is just the Govs propaganda word for "we did't get it right, so we're going to do it again" "and again" ad infinitum 'til we eventually get that last shirt.
It's not evasion if one pays what is required by law.
I didn't
Seems a strange stance you have taken on this matter.
I'm sure if you want to pay a little extra HMG will accept it.
Loophole is just the Govs propaganda word for "we did't get it right, so we're going to do it again" "and again" ad infinitum 'til we eventually get that last shirt.
It's not evasion if one pays what is required by law.
It’s not strange at all the people who think it’s okay to rip off the country by shipping vast amounts of money to Switzerland and then these same people moaning about the dole scroungers costing the country money is ironic to say the least.
I really fail to see what my garage has to do with anything maybe if there was the odd Zonda or Ferrari I would understand.
Tax is tax if you don't like paying it, you know what you can do, I'll help you pack.
Try Sweden or Denmark, the tax in these countries will really make your eyes water.
Anyway if the government actually pulls its finger out of its ar*e this might become a reality.
I really fail to see what my garage has to do with anything maybe if there was the odd Zonda or Ferrari I would understand.
Tax is tax if you don't like paying it, you know what you can do, I'll help you pack.
Try Sweden or Denmark, the tax in these countries will really make your eyes water.Anyway if the government actually pulls its finger out of its ar*e this might become a reality.
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