Online estate agents
Discussion
Not sure if this is the right section, homes & gardens didn't seem appropriate, but no doubt the mods will move it if needs be.
I'm thinking of selling up, and given that I only bought my place 2 years ago the thought of paying a hefty chunk of would-be deposit to a teenage wideboy for not a lot isn't particularly appealing. I have thought of doing it myself (ads on Rightmove et al) but I'm now thinking a halfway arrangement like housesimple.co.uk or housenetwork.co.uk could be a good bet.
With the online agents you still get a for-sale board, they come round, measure up etc, market heavily and can arrange viewings, but at a fraction of the cost (£400 up front, no commission). I plan to conduct all viewings myself either way, since I have yet to meet an estate agent who was any good at actually selling a house, and their fees structure doesn't really incentivise them to do more than the bare minimum anyway (they look for a sale, any sale). I'm also not afraid of negotiation, so it seems quite a suitable option for me.
However, I would only do it if it saved me money, which means the house has to sell for within a couple of k of what the agent would sell it for. With that in mind, how much of the market for a modern 2 bed terrace in a nice area do people think an agent's physical high st presence, local advertising and househunter list capture that online advertising won't?
I'm thinking of selling up, and given that I only bought my place 2 years ago the thought of paying a hefty chunk of would-be deposit to a teenage wideboy for not a lot isn't particularly appealing. I have thought of doing it myself (ads on Rightmove et al) but I'm now thinking a halfway arrangement like housesimple.co.uk or housenetwork.co.uk could be a good bet.
With the online agents you still get a for-sale board, they come round, measure up etc, market heavily and can arrange viewings, but at a fraction of the cost (£400 up front, no commission). I plan to conduct all viewings myself either way, since I have yet to meet an estate agent who was any good at actually selling a house, and their fees structure doesn't really incentivise them to do more than the bare minimum anyway (they look for a sale, any sale). I'm also not afraid of negotiation, so it seems quite a suitable option for me.
However, I would only do it if it saved me money, which means the house has to sell for within a couple of k of what the agent would sell it for. With that in mind, how much of the market for a modern 2 bed terrace in a nice area do people think an agent's physical high st presence, local advertising and househunter list capture that online advertising won't?
I thought it was a lot, now not so sure.
Was initially on the market with a local internet-only agent who do 0.5% but don't have a 'shop' or advetise in the local rag. Got 17 people through the door in 6 weeks and 2 offers (although very cheeky ones). No luck there so tried the local agent who have a shop round the corner from me, take up half the advertising space in the paper and are the 'trusted' local ones. 4 viewings in 6 weeks, no viewings, no feedback.
I've decided all estate agents are rubbish and I would prefeably only part with my cash for their services by them prying it out of my cold, dead fingers.
IMO to sell a house, you need to be on rightmove, preferably have a 'for sale' sign outside, have some leads that are actively looking to purchase and be able to talk the propety up on a viewing. The difference between internet-based and more traditional EAs is very little from my experience.
Was initially on the market with a local internet-only agent who do 0.5% but don't have a 'shop' or advetise in the local rag. Got 17 people through the door in 6 weeks and 2 offers (although very cheeky ones). No luck there so tried the local agent who have a shop round the corner from me, take up half the advertising space in the paper and are the 'trusted' local ones. 4 viewings in 6 weeks, no viewings, no feedback.
I've decided all estate agents are rubbish and I would prefeably only part with my cash for their services by them prying it out of my cold, dead fingers.
IMO to sell a house, you need to be on rightmove, preferably have a 'for sale' sign outside, have some leads that are actively looking to purchase and be able to talk the propety up on a viewing. The difference between internet-based and more traditional EAs is very little from my experience.
Hmm, interesting.
The main problem with estate agents I feel is that their fees simply don't incentivise them to get a good price for your house. If the house sells, for anything at all, they get a decent payout.I don't know what commission individual agents are on (20% of 1% maybe?), but it simply isn't worth the effort for them to work a lot harder and get you an extra 10k. For an agent, they are better off concentrating their efforts on getting properties on the books than actually selling them.
If you negotiate their commission down, they have even less incentive to sell your house vs somebody else's. But I might try to negotiate a different structure where all the commission is at the top end and see what they say.
The main problem with estate agents I feel is that their fees simply don't incentivise them to get a good price for your house. If the house sells, for anything at all, they get a decent payout.I don't know what commission individual agents are on (20% of 1% maybe?), but it simply isn't worth the effort for them to work a lot harder and get you an extra 10k. For an agent, they are better off concentrating their efforts on getting properties on the books than actually selling them.
If you negotiate their commission down, they have even less incentive to sell your house vs somebody else's. But I might try to negotiate a different structure where all the commission is at the top end and see what they say.
You need to find a decent estate agent. I pay an EA to negotiate the sale, using whatever tactics they see fit to get me the best price - after all it's what they do for a living. The other stuff is incidental. Great you save yourself £1,500 by doing it online, but what if the EA could have got you £5k more than the price you actually achieved.
We've sold 3 houses and every time we've achieved a price at least £10k more than the best of the 3 initial valuations by the EA's competing for the instruction.
This is the biggest sale of you're life and you're trying to cut corners. I agree there are plenty of wideboys out there, which is why you need to get recommendations from people.
We've sold 3 houses and every time we've achieved a price at least £10k more than the best of the 3 initial valuations by the EA's competing for the instruction.
This is the biggest sale of you're life and you're trying to cut corners. I agree there are plenty of wideboys out there, which is why you need to get recommendations from people.
Edited by JQ on Tuesday 27th April 14:03
I sold my flat a couple of years ago through an estate agent. Ended up showing 90% of the viewers around myself, the agents tried very hard to get me to give them a figure I'd take an offer at (and were not too happy when I told them 'asking price, definitely') I was not very happy at paying them commission, seeing as they had not really done a lot! The one benefit was having an ad in the window of their shop, in the centre of the town. But everything else I could have done myself I think. I'll certainly go independent next time round.
scirocco265 said:
bogwoppit said:
...but it simply isn't worth the effort for them to work a lot harder and get you an extra 10k.
You should read Freakonomics
Great book btw. It's very telling that a study in the US (where commission is higher and agents need professional qualifications) showed that agents sell their own houses for 10% more than their clients', leaving them on the market a week longer.I'm not trying to cut corners per se, I'm trying to achieve the most profitable sale. If a high street agent can sell the house for 5k more than an online agent, it makes sense to use them. If it's only 1k more, it doesn't. It seems like PH opinion on which outcome is more likely is split. To be honest given that the online option isn't coming out miles on top I will probably take the 'old school' route, what with it being such a big transaction and all.
To tell you the truth I work in property - commercial property. I have nothing to do with residential but am completely confident with all aspects of property mechanics. I have colleagues who work in residential property and they are an invaluable source of info for me when considering my own properties. (We don't sell residential property so I have no vested interest in EA's and am hopefully not biased)
Despite the above I will always use an Estate Agent. I know when we're selling a commercial property and the purchaser is unrepresented we will generally sell the property for more than if the buyer was represented. In commercial property both the vendor and purchaser should generally employ their own agent to negotiate the deal. In residential it's far more one-sided, until the vendor chooses to do away with the EA and then it's a level playing field again.
Same goes for Estate Agency - I consider the EA will have info that is not available to a private seller and can be used in the negotiation:
1. How desperate the purchaser is
2. What other properties have they offered on and what have they offered
3. What's the real position with the sale of their own property
4. What is their genuine budget - if they've seen the EA's IFA then all financial info will be freely available
5. Are they running with more than one property
6. What have their tactics been on other properties they've offered on.
It's up to the EA to then use the above info (and more) to secure the best price for you. That's what I consider is their USP. It's the only reason I employ one as I could easily handle a sale myself, but to me the most important aspect of selling my house is getting the best possible price.
Obviously the above only applies to agents with a good reputation and the hardest part is finding one. You just have to ask everyone you meet - I have used the same agent on all occasions and he's pure gold, getting us the best possible price, using all sorts of techniques to get the vendors to up their offers.
I've no doubt that there's lots of people happy with internet house sales all over the internet, but quite frankly, they'll never know whether they could have got a much better price if they'd use an Agent. It's a very difficult issue to quantify.
Good luck with the sale, whichever way you choose.
Despite the above I will always use an Estate Agent. I know when we're selling a commercial property and the purchaser is unrepresented we will generally sell the property for more than if the buyer was represented. In commercial property both the vendor and purchaser should generally employ their own agent to negotiate the deal. In residential it's far more one-sided, until the vendor chooses to do away with the EA and then it's a level playing field again.
Same goes for Estate Agency - I consider the EA will have info that is not available to a private seller and can be used in the negotiation:
1. How desperate the purchaser is
2. What other properties have they offered on and what have they offered
3. What's the real position with the sale of their own property
4. What is their genuine budget - if they've seen the EA's IFA then all financial info will be freely available
5. Are they running with more than one property
6. What have their tactics been on other properties they've offered on.
It's up to the EA to then use the above info (and more) to secure the best price for you. That's what I consider is their USP. It's the only reason I employ one as I could easily handle a sale myself, but to me the most important aspect of selling my house is getting the best possible price.
Obviously the above only applies to agents with a good reputation and the hardest part is finding one. You just have to ask everyone you meet - I have used the same agent on all occasions and he's pure gold, getting us the best possible price, using all sorts of techniques to get the vendors to up their offers.
I've no doubt that there's lots of people happy with internet house sales all over the internet, but quite frankly, they'll never know whether they could have got a much better price if they'd use an Agent. It's a very difficult issue to quantify.
Good luck with the sale, whichever way you choose.
Thanks JQ, useful insight. But how will my agent know how many properties the buyer has offered on, what their tactics were? Surely only the other vendors' agents know that? And from what I remember of last time, colleagues in the same agency acting for different parties are not allowed to discuss the sale (yeah right!).
Also, just to clarify: I'm not considering doing without an agent, simply using one who does not have a high street office. They do pretty much everything else (valuations, negotiations etc).
Also, just to clarify: I'm not considering doing without an agent, simply using one who does not have a high street office. They do pretty much everything else (valuations, negotiations etc).
bogwoppit said:
Thanks JQ, useful insight. But how will my agent know how many properties the buyer has offered on, what their tactics were? Surely only the other vendors' agents know that? And from what I remember of last time, colleagues in the same agency acting for different parties are not allowed to discuss the sale (yeah right!).
Also, just to clarify: I'm not considering doing without an agent, simply using one who does not have a high street office. They do pretty much everything else (valuations, negotiations etc).
Agents do talk to each other ! Plus invariably if you're using an agent who's dominant locally, they may have been selling the properties that the purchaser may have previously offered on, or been interested in. Tactics can be inventing other interest in the property or knowing that they've been offering at the £350K level, when they're offering £300k on your property - the EA can advise to play hardball on the price as the purchaser has plenty more to offer.Also, just to clarify: I'm not considering doing without an agent, simply using one who does not have a high street office. They do pretty much everything else (valuations, negotiations etc).
If the non-high street agent is local then fine - but I'd worry about someone in Nottingham negotiating a price in Chester, it's very unlikely they know the market. I would also worry about paying someone £500 to sell my house - at that price point it beomes a pure turnover business, ie get as much business as possible and bill the fee as quickly as possible - which does not necessarily correlate with getting you the best price.
However, I would reiterate my point that it does require finding a good agent, as you said, if you end up with a wideboy there's no point paying the extra cash.
Again, thanks, makes a lot of sense. It's true that a flat fee upfront provides even less incentive to sell your house, and they don't really know the market. I got some recommendations for local agents, but most of them seemed to be more focussed on how "professional" they were or how low the fees. Less about their performance in getting viewings through the door and converted to offers. Got some valuations booked for today though so will see what they say for themselves.
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