Watches as investments?
Discussion
I was wondering what people thought about decent watches as investmnets, given that the better stuff doesn't seem to lose value and you get to wear them too? I have seen some nice 18th century pocket watchjes at reasonable prices ( I guess because nobody wars them), some classic 1950's and 1960's wrist watches by Patek, IWC, JLC, Blancpan, Omega etc and then some modern classics.
My worry would be servicing costs eroding an increase in value, and insurance.
Yep, servicing costs. And you need to pick the right ones. Plus there's an element of trends. It's not like the property market, where you could have bought any house anywhere in the UK in 1995 and sold 10 years later at substantial percentage profit. You need to do your research and work out what you think will be sought after. I mean, look at any '60s Omega Seamaster dress watch. Prices vary from £100 to £400. Maybe in the '60s you paid £50 so on the face of it that's a rise of 800%. However, factor in servicing costs over the 50 years and suddenly it doesn't seem such a good investment. And then you have issues like Rolex putting up the price every half a year. There will come a time when people refuse to pay £3k for a 15 year old watch that everyone has. I've seen bubbles in every industry. We'll get one in the watch industry in due course. It's just a matter of time.
You see what I did there?
You see what I did there?
I quite fancy one/some of the classic 1950's Pateks and JLCs. There is something incredibly cool, I think, about a watch that looks as stylish now as it did 50 years ago and probably wil in another 50. I think some of the 1970's dress watches look like 1970's dress watches and won't appeal to everyone. I cannot believe the value of good quality 18th and 19th century.
I have a new JLC but replaced the strap within a few days with a decent but non JLC one so that when/if I sell I will have the original strap in great condition.
Do Goldsmith et al service their own second hand stock or send it back to the manufacturer to be done? Like manufacturer servicing of a car, is it critical to maintain value or will servicing by a reputable dealer be as good?
I have a new JLC but replaced the strap within a few days with a decent but non JLC one so that when/if I sell I will have the original strap in great condition.
Do Goldsmith et al service their own second hand stock or send it back to the manufacturer to be done? Like manufacturer servicing of a car, is it critical to maintain value or will servicing by a reputable dealer be as good?
I have 3 modern Patek's, the Officers Model from about 8 years ago and the Neptune from about 10 years ago plus the current version of the world time. I'm not so sure how they will fare at keeping their value. I expect that the Neptune and the Officers are both worth more than they cost me but you have to factor in inflation over the last 8 to 10 years. The world time has increased in retail value to about £23,000 mainly because of exchange rate, when I bought it couple years ago the retail was around £16 something.
With older Patek's they can be bought very cheaply in the US for the run of the mill 50's-60's and 70's watches. The ones that start to go up greatly in value are as you would expect, the rarer ones. Every time I get the Patek magazine through the post they show what has sold at auction recently with watches going for $100's of thousands and sometimes millions. I think it was one of the original early world times that went a few years ago for $6m or so (don't think the modern ones will, unfortunately).
I had a gold and steel GMT from 1986 which was about £1300-1400 new which I sold when I got my first Patek. I sold it for £1400 so it maintained it's value and my only servicing costs were about £240 or so for 2 Rolex services in the time I had it. I guess now it would sell for a fair bit more but I soild it to a dealer for a quick deal and he qould have had to make a profit on top. All I've spent on the Patek's is a new strap for the Officers which was about £130 from Patek. Haven't had the need for any servicing yet.
With older Patek's they can be bought very cheaply in the US for the run of the mill 50's-60's and 70's watches. The ones that start to go up greatly in value are as you would expect, the rarer ones. Every time I get the Patek magazine through the post they show what has sold at auction recently with watches going for $100's of thousands and sometimes millions. I think it was one of the original early world times that went a few years ago for $6m or so (don't think the modern ones will, unfortunately).
I had a gold and steel GMT from 1986 which was about £1300-1400 new which I sold when I got my first Patek. I sold it for £1400 so it maintained it's value and my only servicing costs were about £240 or so for 2 Rolex services in the time I had it. I guess now it would sell for a fair bit more but I soild it to a dealer for a quick deal and he qould have had to make a profit on top. All I've spent on the Patek's is a new strap for the Officers which was about £130 from Patek. Haven't had the need for any servicing yet.
Im a bit biased but i think watches will return a greater reward than any bank now. get yourself a watch winder, put your watch in there and just see the money go up.
fOR EXAMPLE: Rolex submarine 2007 £2840 now 2009 £3760 which equate to over 17% a year
I have a a milgauss for sale at the moment 2009....new in the shop £3840 im looking for £3250ono (perks of being friends with a rolex AD) And also have a subamariner, £3050 (6 weeks old but in a1 condition) all in the watch classifieds of piston heads)
fOR EXAMPLE: Rolex submarine 2007 £2840 now 2009 £3760 which equate to over 17% a year
I have a a milgauss for sale at the moment 2009....new in the shop £3840 im looking for £3250ono (perks of being friends with a rolex AD) And also have a subamariner, £3050 (6 weeks old but in a1 condition) all in the watch classifieds of piston heads)
auditt said:
Im a bit biased but i think watches will return a greater reward than any bank now. get yourself a watch winder, put your watch in there and just see the money go up.
fOR EXAMPLE: Rolex submarine 2007 £2840 now 2009 £3760 which equate to over 17% a year
Is this the AD price or the price a private individual could sell it for?fOR EXAMPLE: Rolex submarine 2007 £2840 now 2009 £3760 which equate to over 17% a year
Let's assume you bought it for £2840, what could you realistically sell it for? (Feel free to link to tz-uk ads.)
ukshooter said:
I have 3 modern Patek's, the Officers Model from about 8 years ago and the Neptune from about 10 years ago plus the current version of the world time. I'm not so sure how they will fare at keeping their value. I expect that the Neptune and the Officers are both worth more than they cost me but you have to factor in inflation over the last 8 to 10 years. The world time has increased in retail value to about £23,000 mainly because of exchange rate, when I bought it couple years ago the retail was around £16 something.
With older Patek's they can be bought very cheaply in the US for the run of the mill 50's-60's and 70's watches. The ones that start to go up greatly in value are as you would expect, the rarer ones. Every time I get the Patek magazine through the post they show what has sold at auction recently with watches going for $100's of thousands and sometimes millions. I think it was one of the original early world times that went a few years ago for $6m or so (don't think the modern ones will, unfortunately).
I had a gold and steel GMT from 1986 which was about £1300-1400 new which I sold when I got my first Patek. I sold it for £1400 so it maintained it's value and my only servicing costs were about £240 or so for 2 Rolex services in the time I had it. I guess now it would sell for a fair bit more but I soild it to a dealer for a quick deal and he qould have had to make a profit on top. All I've spent on the Patek's is a new strap for the Officers which was about £130 from Patek. Haven't had the need for any servicing yet.
Pretty much sums up what I thought. So the only way to make money is to predict what is likely to be a future collectable because it's rare now but not because it's rare because a manufacturer makes it rare and therefore charges more for it now. IYSWIM! Any of the stuff you buy now that's collectable is just like buying BA shares 3 years ago cos it looked like it was going up.With older Patek's they can be bought very cheaply in the US for the run of the mill 50's-60's and 70's watches. The ones that start to go up greatly in value are as you would expect, the rarer ones. Every time I get the Patek magazine through the post they show what has sold at auction recently with watches going for $100's of thousands and sometimes millions. I think it was one of the original early world times that went a few years ago for $6m or so (don't think the modern ones will, unfortunately).
I had a gold and steel GMT from 1986 which was about £1300-1400 new which I sold when I got my first Patek. I sold it for £1400 so it maintained it's value and my only servicing costs were about £240 or so for 2 Rolex services in the time I had it. I guess now it would sell for a fair bit more but I soild it to a dealer for a quick deal and he qould have had to make a profit on top. All I've spent on the Patek's is a new strap for the Officers which was about £130 from Patek. Haven't had the need for any servicing yet.
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