Company Fuel Cards and Tax
Discussion
I have a company fuel card for use with my private car. My P11D for last (tax) year shows a benefit of £2420 for fuel paid. The company don't ask me for, or keep, records of which are private and which are company miles.
As I understand it, I can claim all my business miles back against the fuel card benefit....???
Business miles for last year were 9552, and again, my understanding is that you can claim tax back at 40p per mile up to 10,000 miles? Therefore my reclaim of tax would be 9552 x 0.40, or £3820.8, thus negating the £2420 P11D benefit? (In fact do I therefore get a rebate?)
But filing my tax return online, I haven't seen any section where I can enter this.
Anyone know the way forward? Otherwise I'll have to call HMRC I guess.
Thanks.
As I understand it, I can claim all my business miles back against the fuel card benefit....???
Business miles for last year were 9552, and again, my understanding is that you can claim tax back at 40p per mile up to 10,000 miles? Therefore my reclaim of tax would be 9552 x 0.40, or £3820.8, thus negating the £2420 P11D benefit? (In fact do I therefore get a rebate?)
But filing my tax return online, I haven't seen any section where I can enter this.
Anyone know the way forward? Otherwise I'll have to call HMRC I guess.
Thanks.
I'm not certain as your situation is not one I've come across before.
The 40p allowance is for the government allowance for running a car. Typically those who get a cash allowance in lieu of a car and a lower fuel mileage rate claim the difference between that and 40p against tax.
ETA: I don't think your calculation is quite right as you would only be able to claim 23% or 40% of the £3,820 back against tax.
The 40p allowance is for the government allowance for running a car. Typically those who get a cash allowance in lieu of a car and a lower fuel mileage rate claim the difference between that and 40p against tax.
ETA: I don't think your calculation is quite right as you would only be able to claim 23% or 40% of the £3,820 back against tax.
Edited by uuf361 on Sunday 20th September 20:16
Edited by uuf361 on Sunday 20th September 20:17
As I understand it, your company are paying for business fuel via the fuel card, therefore there is no cost to you and as such I don't understand why you would be able to claim the 40p per mile allowance.
The reason that you are paying tax on the fuel benefit is becuase your company also pay for your private fuel use. HTH.
The reason that you are paying tax on the fuel benefit is becuase your company also pay for your private fuel use. HTH.
Mandat said:
As I understand it, your company are paying for business fuel via the fuel card, therefore there is no cost to you and as such I don't understand why you would be able to claim the 40p per mile allowance.
The reason that you are paying tax on the fuel benefit is becuase your company also pay for your private fuel use. HTH.
I was under the impression that by being taxed on the full amount charged to the card, I am therefore paying tax on the cost of fuel used for business miles; hence my query. I'm also sure I've seen this documented somewhere but can't find that at present. I'll have to speak to the Revenue and see what they say.The reason that you are paying tax on the fuel benefit is becuase your company also pay for your private fuel use. HTH.
C8PPO said:
Mandat said:
As I understand it, your company are paying for business fuel via the fuel card, therefore there is no cost to you and as such I don't understand why you would be able to claim the 40p per mile allowance.
The reason that you are paying tax on the fuel benefit is becuase your company also pay for your private fuel use. HTH.
I was under the impression that by being taxed on the full amount charged to the card, I am therefore paying tax on the cost of fuel used for business miles; hence my query. I'm also sure I've seen this documented somewhere but can't find that at present. I'll have to speak to the Revenue and see what they say.The reason that you are paying tax on the fuel benefit is becuase your company also pay for your private fuel use. HTH.
I'm not sure how but it may be possible to make a distinction between the governments recommended mileage rate for your car and the 40p and claim the difference between the 2 at your taxable rate, as this would cover the wear and tear on the car which you are not being reimbursed for by your employer
It is called "private fuel benefit" and the value of the benefit for tax purposes is a flat rate depending on the CO2 emissions band of the car. It is not linked to the number of miles you do. It is worked out similar to the company car benefit except with a constant number in lieu of the "list price".
The business mileage is not a factor for this tax - it is paid by the company. Being able to claim the tax on the difference between what they actually pay per mile (i.e. the cost of fuel and oil) and 40p MIGHT work if you also pay the upkeep of the car (i.e. you bought it, service it etc). But I doubt it - the system is meant for those with company cars, and works the same way. The only way to be sure is to call the tax office.
The business mileage is not a factor for this tax - it is paid by the company. Being able to claim the tax on the difference between what they actually pay per mile (i.e. the cost of fuel and oil) and 40p MIGHT work if you also pay the upkeep of the car (i.e. you bought it, service it etc). But I doubt it - the system is meant for those with company cars, and works the same way. The only way to be sure is to call the tax office.
-Pete- said:
If you have a fuel card, your company are paying for all your fuel. You can't claim anything back for business mileage, it's either/or.
Either you have free fuel and can claim nothing, or you don't but can claim 40p/25p for business mileage.
The way my last company worked it was that they declare the private fuel use on the car (based on mileage returns) and I was taxed on that as a benefit in kind. I could then claim 40p per mile for business miles up to 10,000 miles and then the reduced rate thereafter.Either you have free fuel and can claim nothing, or you don't but can claim 40p/25p for business mileage.
You cannot do this if you have a company car, it only works if it is your car
Well, I've just spoken to HMRC and explained the situation and asked how to deal with it. The lady there has assured me that I *can* claim business miles against the P11D Taxable Benefit of the fuel card, and talked me through how and where to enter it online whilst completing my tax return. The happy result is that my business mileage allowance against the P11D value results in a tax REBATE to me (which is what I wondered in my OP). Tax return now completed and filed - will have to wait and see whether they query or challenge it, but I've had confirmation from them direct which is good enough for me at this time.
C8PPO said:
Well, I've just spoken to HMRC and explained the situation and asked how to deal with it. The lady there has assured me that I *can* claim business miles against the P11D Taxable Benefit of the fuel card, and talked me through how and where to enter it online whilst completing my tax return. The happy result is that my business mileage allowance against the P11D value results in a tax REBATE to me (which is what I wondered in my OP). Tax return now completed and filed - will have to wait and see whether they query or challenge it, but I've had confirmation from them direct which is good enough for me at this time.
They have never queried mine, but for some reason despite my calcs and my agents calcs there is NEVER a rebaterunning your own car with a fuel card is the best way I found - Ive been like that for over 6 years now.
You are correct - you get the difference back, I usually get a rebate every year, usually enough for the car to be serviced...which is a nice bonus
the .40p amount is how much the govt says you can get from your employer to run a car for work, it includes things like an amount for servicing/insurance, not just fuel, dosent matter whether someones given you .30p a mile or £2500 worth of petrol vouchers, or just paid the bill on your fuel card - thats all the same to the tax man
On your P11D the fuel benefit is shown in "other" - this goes in "other" on the tax return, and is a benefit
your expenses go in the usual section, and a business expense is .40p a mile x whatever business miles youve done. Make sure you show the car reg, start/finish miles for the year, total business miles etc in the comments box as your workings out of your "expense" which is of course miles travelled x .40p minus the amount of fuel paid
you then get the tax back on the difference - simple as that
keep a record of your business miles each year, do your tax return online, and usually the rebate is in your account by the end of the week - a very efficient service from the Inland Revenue (for a change)
...certainly better than paying tax at a flat rate based on the CO2 of a company car ....I wouldnt be driving a V8 for work if that was the case LOL
You are correct - you get the difference back, I usually get a rebate every year, usually enough for the car to be serviced...which is a nice bonus
the .40p amount is how much the govt says you can get from your employer to run a car for work, it includes things like an amount for servicing/insurance, not just fuel, dosent matter whether someones given you .30p a mile or £2500 worth of petrol vouchers, or just paid the bill on your fuel card - thats all the same to the tax man
On your P11D the fuel benefit is shown in "other" - this goes in "other" on the tax return, and is a benefit
your expenses go in the usual section, and a business expense is .40p a mile x whatever business miles youve done. Make sure you show the car reg, start/finish miles for the year, total business miles etc in the comments box as your workings out of your "expense" which is of course miles travelled x .40p minus the amount of fuel paid
you then get the tax back on the difference - simple as that
keep a record of your business miles each year, do your tax return online, and usually the rebate is in your account by the end of the week - a very efficient service from the Inland Revenue (for a change)
...certainly better than paying tax at a flat rate based on the CO2 of a company car ....I wouldnt be driving a V8 for work if that was the case LOL
blueg33 said:
C8PPO said:
Well, I've just spoken to HMRC and explained the situation and asked how to deal with it. The lady there has assured me that I *can* claim business miles against the P11D Taxable Benefit of the fuel card, and talked me through how and where to enter it online whilst completing my tax return. The happy result is that my business mileage allowance against the P11D value results in a tax REBATE to me (which is what I wondered in my OP). Tax return now completed and filed - will have to wait and see whether they query or challenge it, but I've had confirmation from them direct which is good enough for me at this time.
They have never queried mine, but for some reason despite my calcs and my agents calcs there is NEVER a rebateC8PPO said:
Well, I've just spoken to HMRC and explained the situation and asked how to deal with it. The lady there has assured me that I *can* claim business miles against the P11D Taxable Benefit of the fuel card, and talked me through how and where to enter it online whilst completing my tax return. The happy result is that my business mileage allowance against the P11D value results in a tax REBATE to me (which is what I wondered in my OP). Tax return now completed and filed - will have to wait and see whether they query or challenge it, but I've had confirmation from them direct which is good enough for me at this time.
I can't help thinking that cannot be completely correct - you surely must have to deduct the value of fuel supplied for business use, perhaps at the approved rates? http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cars/advisory_fuel_current.... Normal drill is for companies to pay, say, 15p/mile and then you claim back the difference. To get free business fuel (your tax is for the private fuel) and being able to claim the tax back on the full 40p really is having your cake and eating it.Make sure you keep good records (for 6 years), in case of query - especially as your mileage is rather close to the 10K cut-off on the 40p rate!
Also, how many private miles to you do - have you calculated whether you actually benefit from the "free" private fuel?
bogie said:
blueg33 said:
C8PPO said:
Well, I've just spoken to HMRC and explained the situation and asked how to deal with it. The lady there has assured me that I *can* claim business miles against the P11D Taxable Benefit of the fuel card, and talked me through how and where to enter it online whilst completing my tax return. The happy result is that my business mileage allowance against the P11D value results in a tax REBATE to me (which is what I wondered in my OP). Tax return now completed and filed - will have to wait and see whether they query or challenge it, but I've had confirmation from them direct which is good enough for me at this time.
They have never queried mine, but for some reason despite my calcs and my agents calcs there is NEVER a rebateDeva Link said:
C8PPO said:
Well, I've just spoken to HMRC and explained the situation and asked how to deal with it. The lady there has assured me that I *can* claim business miles against the P11D Taxable Benefit of the fuel card, and talked me through how and where to enter it online whilst completing my tax return. The happy result is that my business mileage allowance against the P11D value results in a tax REBATE to me (which is what I wondered in my OP). Tax return now completed and filed - will have to wait and see whether they query or challenge it, but I've had confirmation from them direct which is good enough for me at this time.
I can't help thinking that cannot be completely correct - you surely must have to deduct the value of fuel supplied for business use, perhaps at the approved rates? http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cars/advisory_fuel_current.... Normal drill is for companies to pay, say, 15p/mile and then you claim back the difference. To get free business fuel (your tax is for the private fuel) and being able to claim the tax back on the full 40p really is having your cake and eating it.Make sure you keep good records (for 6 years), in case of query - especially as your mileage is rather close to the 10K cut-off on the 40p rate!
Also, how many private miles to you do - have you calculated whether you actually benefit from the "free" private fuel?
blueg33 said:
Deva Link said:
C8PPO said:
Well, I've just spoken to HMRC and explained the situation and asked how to deal with it. The lady there has assured me that I *can* claim business miles against the P11D Taxable Benefit of the fuel card, and talked me through how and where to enter it online whilst completing my tax return. The happy result is that my business mileage allowance against the P11D value results in a tax REBATE to me (which is what I wondered in my OP). Tax return now completed and filed - will have to wait and see whether they query or challenge it, but I've had confirmation from them direct which is good enough for me at this time.
I can't help thinking that cannot be completely correct - you surely must have to deduct the value of fuel supplied for business use, perhaps at the approved rates? http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cars/advisory_fuel_current.... Normal drill is for companies to pay, say, 15p/mile and then you claim back the difference. To get free business fuel (your tax is for the private fuel) and being able to claim the tax back on the full 40p really is having your cake and eating it.Make sure you keep good records (for 6 years), in case of query - especially as your mileage is rather close to the 10K cut-off on the 40p rate!
Also, how many private miles to you do - have you calculated whether you actually benefit from the "free" private fuel?
It's an odd arrangement, because normally with a company car you would pay fuel benefit based on the car's CO2 emissions but you can't do that with a private car. So you simply pay tax (and NI) on the actual value of fuel supplied as declared by the employer.
You can then claim tax back the full 40/25p rates for business use.
The more usual way this is done is to repay private mileage at the approved rates and then assume that rate is paid for business use, and then you claim back the difference.
blueg33 said:
bogie said:
blueg33 said:
C8PPO said:
Well, I've just spoken to HMRC and explained the situation and asked how to deal with it. The lady there has assured me that I *can* claim business miles against the P11D Taxable Benefit of the fuel card, and talked me through how and where to enter it online whilst completing my tax return. The happy result is that my business mileage allowance against the P11D value results in a tax REBATE to me (which is what I wondered in my OP). Tax return now completed and filed - will have to wait and see whether they query or challenge it, but I've had confirmation from them direct which is good enough for me at this time.
They have never queried mine, but for some reason despite my calcs and my agents calcs there is NEVER a rebate...if you are a higher rate tax payer and regularly donate to charity, as long as you have proof, you can claim the tax back on the difference...I know these days you usually give gift aid to the charity, but that only works on the 1st 40% most of the time ...so if you keep receipts, and give like £600 to charity per year overall then you can get the tax back on another 15% too
...all helps offset the benefits ,like the "free" personal fuel
Deva Link said:
blueg33 said:
Deva Link said:
C8PPO said:
Well, I've just spoken to HMRC and explained the situation and asked how to deal with it. The lady there has assured me that I *can* claim business miles against the P11D Taxable Benefit of the fuel card, and talked me through how and where to enter it online whilst completing my tax return. The happy result is that my business mileage allowance against the P11D value results in a tax REBATE to me (which is what I wondered in my OP). Tax return now completed and filed - will have to wait and see whether they query or challenge it, but I've had confirmation from them direct which is good enough for me at this time.
I can't help thinking that cannot be completely correct - you surely must have to deduct the value of fuel supplied for business use, perhaps at the approved rates? http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cars/advisory_fuel_current.... Normal drill is for companies to pay, say, 15p/mile and then you claim back the difference. To get free business fuel (your tax is for the private fuel) and being able to claim the tax back on the full 40p really is having your cake and eating it.Make sure you keep good records (for 6 years), in case of query - especially as your mileage is rather close to the 10K cut-off on the 40p rate!
Also, how many private miles to you do - have you calculated whether you actually benefit from the "free" private fuel?
It's an odd arrangement, because normally with a company car you would pay fuel benefit based on the car's CO2 emissions but you can't do that with a private car. So you simply pay tax (and NI) on the actual value of fuel supplied as declared by the employer.
You can then claim tax back the full 40/25p rates for business use.
The more usual way this is done is to repay private mileage at the approved rates and then assume that rate is paid for business use, and then you claim back the difference.
bogie said:
blueg33 said:
bogie said:
blueg33 said:
C8PPO said:
Well, I've just spoken to HMRC and explained the situation and asked how to deal with it. The lady there has assured me that I *can* claim business miles against the P11D Taxable Benefit of the fuel card, and talked me through how and where to enter it online whilst completing my tax return. The happy result is that my business mileage allowance against the P11D value results in a tax REBATE to me (which is what I wondered in my OP). Tax return now completed and filed - will have to wait and see whether they query or challenge it, but I've had confirmation from them direct which is good enough for me at this time.
They have never queried mine, but for some reason despite my calcs and my agents calcs there is NEVER a rebate...if you are a higher rate tax payer and regularly donate to charity, as long as you have proof, you can claim the tax back on the difference...I know these days you usually give gift aid to the charity, but that only works on the 1st 40% most of the time ...so if you keep receipts, and give like £600 to charity per year overall then you can get the tax back on another 15% too
...all helps offset the benefits ,like the "free" personal fuel
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