Accountancy Careers - last questions I promise!
Discussion
This week I'm tasked with sorting out my life - and I think I've made quite a mess of things so it might take some time! Yet again I throw myself on the mercy of the lovely people of PH to offer some sound advice.
My current contract is running out in October - it isn't being renewed as it was a one off project and its nearing completion. This means I'm back looking for a job. Again.
Here in lies the problem - I'm just not getting anywhere in my chosen field - accountancy. Would you kind people be able to offer some advice as to how to get on and what to include/exclude in my applications.
For the past year I've been working in the NHS in a finance related project, before that I was working in Credit Control (only 2 months as it was temp work whilst finding a proper job after uni)
I studied engineering at University but didn't finish my final exams due to illness - I had no chance of passing them but wasn't told that I could only gain a pass (rather than the 2:1/2:2 I was in line to get) when it came to sitting them again. So I've got one unfinished course there.... I am planning on finishing it as not having a degree seems to be holding me back. I want to do this via the Open Uni as it'll mean I can get a better grade than a pass and not have to take masses of time out of work to go to lectures etc, the courses however do not start until Feb 2010 (and I didn't have the finances to enrol for Feb 2009). Not working and going back to uni full time is not an option as I have to support myself. However, no-one has asked what classification I've got as I've put down I was there 3 years...which I was. See, a bit of a grey area.
I also spent a year at Imperial but left at the end of the year as I was a bit of a mess - had been in a really bad road accident the year before that and wasn't ready to go to uni as was having loads of treatment still and my memory problems hadn't resolved themselves. Instead of taking sound advice I decided to soldier on and ended up crashing and burning.
Last summer I started the AAT course as I thought it would be a good introduction to accountancy as I've not really tackled much financy type stuff. It has shown me the principles and I am tanking along nicely. However, I'm not getting anywhere jobswise with it as most places want you to be studying ACCA/ACA/CIMA. Would it be realistic to study both at the same time? I reckon I'll have finished AAT by December (was hoping in June, but I couldn't fit in all the coursework) but if I started ACCA at the same time, then I'd have got a couple of exams under my belt by December (the examinable material is quite like AAT so isn't a lot of new work which is ideal) so will be well stuck in.
I know it seems like I've shown no dedication to anything - I've just got a bit lost and thought I was going through the right motions to get back on an even keel but it seems to have gone awry. I am hardworking and do stick at things..just wondered up a little path and not sure how to get back to the road now.
So, do I
a) Put on all Universities? I was quite proud of getting into Imperial as it shows I'm not that deficient in the brain sector...but it also shows I dropped out. Or should I just stick to my last University?
b) Study AAT and ACCA concurrently and state that it is to support each other (as in the AAT is helping with the ACCA studys) or does this show lack of dedication again?
c) Explain the gaps in education and the many attempts at uni.
I'd like to get this all sorted so I can start sending out my CV to all the companies around here -if I don't find anything by November time then I'll be trying to see if I can get some unpaid work experience with firms just to get experience and a foot in the door.
I didn't realise it was going to be this uphill to get everything sorted.
Can anyone shed some light on what I should be doing and how to explain my situation so it doesn't sound like I am a liability. One firm said that I would be a liability because I had a car accident that has obviously impacted on my life and they don't want me going off sick. I'm planning on glossing over this in future as I'm not a nutcase (well..some may disagree!) but need a good way of accouting for the "lost years"
I seem to be stuck in a rut of lack of experience (which may well be remedied by some work experience after my contract has finished) and lack of qualifications.
Thank you so much and apologies for the ramblings and length of the post.
My current contract is running out in October - it isn't being renewed as it was a one off project and its nearing completion. This means I'm back looking for a job. Again.
Here in lies the problem - I'm just not getting anywhere in my chosen field - accountancy. Would you kind people be able to offer some advice as to how to get on and what to include/exclude in my applications.
For the past year I've been working in the NHS in a finance related project, before that I was working in Credit Control (only 2 months as it was temp work whilst finding a proper job after uni)
I studied engineering at University but didn't finish my final exams due to illness - I had no chance of passing them but wasn't told that I could only gain a pass (rather than the 2:1/2:2 I was in line to get) when it came to sitting them again. So I've got one unfinished course there.... I am planning on finishing it as not having a degree seems to be holding me back. I want to do this via the Open Uni as it'll mean I can get a better grade than a pass and not have to take masses of time out of work to go to lectures etc, the courses however do not start until Feb 2010 (and I didn't have the finances to enrol for Feb 2009). Not working and going back to uni full time is not an option as I have to support myself. However, no-one has asked what classification I've got as I've put down I was there 3 years...which I was. See, a bit of a grey area.
I also spent a year at Imperial but left at the end of the year as I was a bit of a mess - had been in a really bad road accident the year before that and wasn't ready to go to uni as was having loads of treatment still and my memory problems hadn't resolved themselves. Instead of taking sound advice I decided to soldier on and ended up crashing and burning.
Last summer I started the AAT course as I thought it would be a good introduction to accountancy as I've not really tackled much financy type stuff. It has shown me the principles and I am tanking along nicely. However, I'm not getting anywhere jobswise with it as most places want you to be studying ACCA/ACA/CIMA. Would it be realistic to study both at the same time? I reckon I'll have finished AAT by December (was hoping in June, but I couldn't fit in all the coursework) but if I started ACCA at the same time, then I'd have got a couple of exams under my belt by December (the examinable material is quite like AAT so isn't a lot of new work which is ideal) so will be well stuck in.
I know it seems like I've shown no dedication to anything - I've just got a bit lost and thought I was going through the right motions to get back on an even keel but it seems to have gone awry. I am hardworking and do stick at things..just wondered up a little path and not sure how to get back to the road now.
So, do I
a) Put on all Universities? I was quite proud of getting into Imperial as it shows I'm not that deficient in the brain sector...but it also shows I dropped out. Or should I just stick to my last University?
b) Study AAT and ACCA concurrently and state that it is to support each other (as in the AAT is helping with the ACCA studys) or does this show lack of dedication again?
c) Explain the gaps in education and the many attempts at uni.
I'd like to get this all sorted so I can start sending out my CV to all the companies around here -if I don't find anything by November time then I'll be trying to see if I can get some unpaid work experience with firms just to get experience and a foot in the door.
I didn't realise it was going to be this uphill to get everything sorted.
Can anyone shed some light on what I should be doing and how to explain my situation so it doesn't sound like I am a liability. One firm said that I would be a liability because I had a car accident that has obviously impacted on my life and they don't want me going off sick. I'm planning on glossing over this in future as I'm not a nutcase (well..some may disagree!) but need a good way of accouting for the "lost years"
I seem to be stuck in a rut of lack of experience (which may well be remedied by some work experience after my contract has finished) and lack of qualifications.
Thank you so much and apologies for the ramblings and length of the post.
For goodness sake - finish something
I would advise getting the AAT out of the way and use it as an inroad to ACCA (or CIMA). You need perhaps to try and get into a small accountancy firm.
As I said, get the AAT qualification - it is recognised and appreciated in the profession and is a useful stepping stone if you want tio progeress further.
I know the recruiting situation isn't the best at the moment but just keep plugging away.
I would advise getting the AAT out of the way and use it as an inroad to ACCA (or CIMA). You need perhaps to try and get into a small accountancy firm.
As I said, get the AAT qualification - it is recognised and appreciated in the profession and is a useful stepping stone if you want tio progeress further.
I know the recruiting situation isn't the best at the moment but just keep plugging away.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 17th August 12:50
As Eric said, finish a few things 1st. AAT will get you exemptions from the foundation ACCA and CIMA levels, so finish that off before you decide anything else.
Also you may wish to narrow things down a little.
ACA is a difficult one to get into (from what I hear), and usually involves being on a grad scheme at one of the big 4. ACCA and CIMA are a little different, ACCA veers towards financial accounting whilst CIMA looks at interpreting accounts for decision making etc.
I have started the managerial level with CIMA, have a look at the website as the syllabus is changing next year. Experience is the key here, I started off in credit control and through a lucky break got into financial planning and analysis. Am studying CIMA as I feel that it would suit me better than ACCA, but that is just me, you have to decide what direction you wish to take.
Also you may wish to narrow things down a little.
ACA is a difficult one to get into (from what I hear), and usually involves being on a grad scheme at one of the big 4. ACCA and CIMA are a little different, ACCA veers towards financial accounting whilst CIMA looks at interpreting accounts for decision making etc.
I have started the managerial level with CIMA, have a look at the website as the syllabus is changing next year. Experience is the key here, I started off in credit control and through a lucky break got into financial planning and analysis. Am studying CIMA as I feel that it would suit me better than ACCA, but that is just me, you have to decide what direction you wish to take.
Thanks Eric and Office Monkey.
I've decided I want to go down the financial route (but not adverse to working in management accounts for the time being - a job is a job and all experience is good experience - but the ultimate goal is financial. I'm struggling to decide between ACA and ACCA but think the ACCA will be the most likely route.
Will knuckle down and finish the AAT - I was just unsure as to whether to not use the exemptions by just getting the ACCA exams done ASAP or finish the AAT first.
Thank you both - very much appreciated.
Anyone got any good ideas how to best phrase my awful background and make me look less like a liability?!
I've decided I want to go down the financial route (but not adverse to working in management accounts for the time being - a job is a job and all experience is good experience - but the ultimate goal is financial. I'm struggling to decide between ACA and ACCA but think the ACCA will be the most likely route.
Will knuckle down and finish the AAT - I was just unsure as to whether to not use the exemptions by just getting the ACCA exams done ASAP or finish the AAT first.
Thank you both - very much appreciated.
Anyone got any good ideas how to best phrase my awful background and make me look less like a liability?!
Unfortunately different employers will react differently to your attempts to explain. Perhaps you should approach it from a practical perspective: if you feel on balance the employer will see your attending Imperial as a benefit, put it down. This might depend on, for example, whether they have stated a degree as a desirable quality in a candidate. However, I personally don't see the value in 'being accepted' for something - an employer can see that you were academically good enough from your prior qualifications, so I wouldn't personally attempt to sell it solely on those grounds. As an analogy, I was accepted by 6 unis, but only actually benefited from 1 of those offers. Suffice to say it's the only one I list. It also seems like a bad strategy to effectively state "I went to a good uni but didn't make it". You aren't really getting the value of the uni's brand that way.
Having said that, some employers are picky about gaps in your CV, some aren't. If you're worried about this, put down everything and either put a genuine short reason for leaving or ring the employer to follow up (a good thing to do anyway) and use the opportunity to explain.
In general, speaking as someone who does assess CVs and interview highly qualified candidates, I do definitely "stratify" them. A person with a series of top degrees at top universities and consistent results in professional qualifications (what I call "route one") often has a different outlook and set of experiences from a person who took a different route (e.g. night school). This often comes across in interviews, with the former group often being more comfortable, confident and eloquent in interview. IMO big firms are more keen on high flyers than smaller employers. With you being in the "alternative route" category you are more of a gamble, but facing your challenges and persevering to achieve a clear goal also shows determination, and this can be a very valuable trait often lacking in the well educated. Try to spin it this way. Even if the employer doesn't care if you get your Open University degree or not they will appreciate that you have set yourself a personal goal and are willing to work to achieve it.
Good luck!
Having said that, some employers are picky about gaps in your CV, some aren't. If you're worried about this, put down everything and either put a genuine short reason for leaving or ring the employer to follow up (a good thing to do anyway) and use the opportunity to explain.
In general, speaking as someone who does assess CVs and interview highly qualified candidates, I do definitely "stratify" them. A person with a series of top degrees at top universities and consistent results in professional qualifications (what I call "route one") often has a different outlook and set of experiences from a person who took a different route (e.g. night school). This often comes across in interviews, with the former group often being more comfortable, confident and eloquent in interview. IMO big firms are more keen on high flyers than smaller employers. With you being in the "alternative route" category you are more of a gamble, but facing your challenges and persevering to achieve a clear goal also shows determination, and this can be a very valuable trait often lacking in the well educated. Try to spin it this way. Even if the employer doesn't care if you get your Open University degree or not they will appreciate that you have set yourself a personal goal and are willing to work to achieve it.
Good luck!
as said above mate, get AAT out of the way, then start looking at acca /aca / cima. Most employers/colleges etc look at AAT as a stepping stone really.
As you've just really started AAT i would guess you would struggle with the furthur courses as it is quite a learning curve, and the first 2 years of aat are childs play compared with the third. With the third being the basis to acca. (hence the exceptions to certain parts of acca)
As you've just really started AAT i would guess you would struggle with the furthur courses as it is quite a learning curve, and the first 2 years of aat are childs play compared with the third. With the third being the basis to acca. (hence the exceptions to certain parts of acca)
Devilstreak said:
as said above mate, get AAT out of the way, then start looking at acca /aca / cima. Most employers/colleges etc look at AAT as a stepping stone really.
As you've just really started AAT i would guess you would struggle with the furthur courses as it is quite a learning curve, and the first 2 years of aat are childs play compared with the third. With the third being the basis to acca. (hence the exceptions to certain parts of acca)
I've passed the Intermediate Level and just have some Technician papers and skills tests to do (and the damn project)As you've just really started AAT i would guess you would struggle with the furthur courses as it is quite a learning curve, and the first 2 years of aat are childs play compared with the third. With the third being the basis to acca. (hence the exceptions to certain parts of acca)
It's taken 8 months which is longer than I'd hoped, the work wasn't hard - just the volume of it (and getting Dr and Cr round the right way which was the bit I struggled with most!)
Eric Mc said:
It is possible to train as an accountant in practice outside of The Big 4, don't forget. There are hundreds of small and medium sized firms (both ACA and ACCA) who will take on trainess.
These are the firms I'm banking on - just hoping there are a few in Yorkshire who might take me on.What would be your suggestions to make me look like a good bet for a small firm? How do I make myself more employable?
Thanks Eric
littlegreenfairy said:
Eric Mc said:
It is possible to train as an accountant in practice outside of The Big 4, don't forget. There are hundreds of small and medium sized firms (both ACA and ACCA) who will take on trainess.
These are the firms I'm banking on - just hoping there are a few in Yorkshire who might take me on.What would be your suggestions to make me look like a good bet for a small firm? How do I make myself more employable?
Thanks Eric
I dont know how old you are, but I would say you need to be patient.
Good jobs dont just land on your lap, you need to complete AAT, then go onto the next step, studying ACCA or CIMA now is almost pointless as the exemptions from completing that will cover the early stages of the next qualifications (or at least it did when i did it).
I started with AAT, took my time, worked hard, did the mundane stuff, did CIMA, worked my way up, I dont have a degree (or even A levels) and now am at FC level for a large blue chip company. I think i finished CIMA around 9/10 years ago.
The lack of degree will put some employers off, but not all, the lack of completing stuff will (whatever the reason).
Get your head down, get AAT done, be prepared for the rubbish jobs, but work hard and it wont be long till you get noticed.
Good jobs dont just land on your lap, you need to complete AAT, then go onto the next step, studying ACCA or CIMA now is almost pointless as the exemptions from completing that will cover the early stages of the next qualifications (or at least it did when i did it).
I started with AAT, took my time, worked hard, did the mundane stuff, did CIMA, worked my way up, I dont have a degree (or even A levels) and now am at FC level for a large blue chip company. I think i finished CIMA around 9/10 years ago.
The lack of degree will put some employers off, but not all, the lack of completing stuff will (whatever the reason).
Get your head down, get AAT done, be prepared for the rubbish jobs, but work hard and it wont be long till you get noticed.
northandy said:
I dont know how old you are, but I would say you need to be patient.
Good jobs dont just land on your lap, you need to complete AAT, then go onto the next step, studying ACCA or CIMA now is almost pointless as the exemptions from completing that will cover the early stages of the next qualifications (or at least it did when i did it).
I started with AAT, took my time, worked hard, did the mundane stuff, did CIMA, worked my way up, I dont have a degree (or even A levels) and now am at FC level for a large blue chip company. I think i finished CIMA around 9/10 years ago.
The lack of degree will put some employers off, but not all, the lack of completing stuff will (whatever the reason).
Get your head down, get AAT done, be prepared for the rubbish jobs, but work hard and it wont be long till you get noticed.
I'm 24 - I have a real complex about not getting anywhere with my life yet and I know thats mostly my fault. Also am terrified of being jobless again as it sucks so badly.Good jobs dont just land on your lap, you need to complete AAT, then go onto the next step, studying ACCA or CIMA now is almost pointless as the exemptions from completing that will cover the early stages of the next qualifications (or at least it did when i did it).
I started with AAT, took my time, worked hard, did the mundane stuff, did CIMA, worked my way up, I dont have a degree (or even A levels) and now am at FC level for a large blue chip company. I think i finished CIMA around 9/10 years ago.
The lack of degree will put some employers off, but not all, the lack of completing stuff will (whatever the reason).
Get your head down, get AAT done, be prepared for the rubbish jobs, but work hard and it wont be long till you get noticed.
Am prepared for rubbish jobs - so long as I can learn from them it is fine, and so long as I am kept busy then thats also fine. Any job that will give me a good grounding would be ace.
I've got my books out and am really knuckling down. Passing 2 more exams has really made me feel a lot better.
Right, applications again!!
Littlegreenfairy, I'm guessing you've just got back results for pev and pcr (as have I), so congratulations! 
I would certainly finish the AAT first, there is little point in starting something else now, because the exemptions from finishing the AAT will cover that stuff anyway- with the added benefit of being far cheaper.
In addition to that, the AAT will also give you a qualification in it's own right.
My background was that I got a 2.2, after uni I toyed with the Police but decided to go into the commercial world instead. I enjoyed law (which I did my degree in) but I would have been restricted to small firms and therefore the practice areas they tend to cover. Instead I decided to go into accountancy as the AAT offered a route into a good firm with some decent clients.
My aim is to go on and complete the ACA with my firm, but retention from the AAT's in the year above is a little poor, so we'll have to see what the firm think in 9-10 months time.
In any case, I would recommend that you approach smaller firms, largely because their criteria for new trainees will be more flexible then big firms who may have a pre-requisite for a degree etc. You should be able to secure an ACCA contract if you are motivated, professional and have 1st time AAT passes.
I have found working in practice valuable. Going on audits means I can scrutinise loads of accounts teams and ways that businesses operate in. I think this would be extremely useful should I want to go into industry or start my own business.
As for the age thing, don't worry about it, it's normal. I feel the same way, I'm 22 and feel like it's ages before I'll be on decent money etc. But with the exception of 2 school leavers on the AAT, most people are actually about your sort of age.
Feel free to drop me a mail if you have any questions.
I would certainly finish the AAT first, there is little point in starting something else now, because the exemptions from finishing the AAT will cover that stuff anyway- with the added benefit of being far cheaper.
In addition to that, the AAT will also give you a qualification in it's own right.
My background was that I got a 2.2, after uni I toyed with the Police but decided to go into the commercial world instead. I enjoyed law (which I did my degree in) but I would have been restricted to small firms and therefore the practice areas they tend to cover. Instead I decided to go into accountancy as the AAT offered a route into a good firm with some decent clients.
My aim is to go on and complete the ACA with my firm, but retention from the AAT's in the year above is a little poor, so we'll have to see what the firm think in 9-10 months time.
In any case, I would recommend that you approach smaller firms, largely because their criteria for new trainees will be more flexible then big firms who may have a pre-requisite for a degree etc. You should be able to secure an ACCA contract if you are motivated, professional and have 1st time AAT passes.
I have found working in practice valuable. Going on audits means I can scrutinise loads of accounts teams and ways that businesses operate in. I think this would be extremely useful should I want to go into industry or start my own business.
As for the age thing, don't worry about it, it's normal. I feel the same way, I'm 22 and feel like it's ages before I'll be on decent money etc. But with the exception of 2 school leavers on the AAT, most people are actually about your sort of age.
Feel free to drop me a mail if you have any questions.
matt3001 said:
Does AAT allow you to study ICAS or ICAEW? In some firms these are more highly regarded than ACCA
ACA is nearly always more highly regarded than ACCA. Some of the bigger firms used to take people at 18 put them through AAT and a three year training course, and then if they wanted to and were considered good enough the ACA also. But it is highly unusual and often candidates find that lack of a first degree holds them back from some roles/companies. Hence Uni then grad scheme ACA account for about 95% of ACA's
ACCA is a valuable and relevant qualification but the institute has dumbed it down and not built up the right prestige for it.
The some firms you mention are probably ones where the hiring managers are ACCA or got rejected by PWC and are still bitter.
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