Spread betting- tax free?
Discussion
In the not too distant future I am going to be trading full time.
I know that the SB companies say that it is a tax free product because it is classed as betting rather than trading, but does anyone have any knowledge of the tax mans view on spread betting for a living as a sole source of income?
i like the idea of not having to pay tax, but it just seems too easy.
From HMRC website:
"To be taxable, the spread betting wins must come not merely from an opportunity presented by a trade, they must arise from the carrying on of that trade. Whether or not a particular spread bet is taxable will depend on the terms of the contract and the economic substance of what is done."
Any help greatly appreciated
I know that the SB companies say that it is a tax free product because it is classed as betting rather than trading, but does anyone have any knowledge of the tax mans view on spread betting for a living as a sole source of income?
i like the idea of not having to pay tax, but it just seems too easy.
From HMRC website:
"To be taxable, the spread betting wins must come not merely from an opportunity presented by a trade, they must arise from the carrying on of that trade. Whether or not a particular spread bet is taxable will depend on the terms of the contract and the economic substance of what is done."
Any help greatly appreciated
No tax an spread-betting.
Interesting to hear you're gonna make a go of it for a living. I did for a while and made lovely money. Thing is I lost my discipline and started moving my stops etc. Lost £10k in 1 day! Decided to get anothe bank job, one which I dont like, but have been betting on the side. Have made a fortune in the last month, luckily.
Good luck with it, and would be interested to hear how you get on.
Cheers.
Interesting to hear you're gonna make a go of it for a living. I did for a while and made lovely money. Thing is I lost my discipline and started moving my stops etc. Lost £10k in 1 day! Decided to get anothe bank job, one which I dont like, but have been betting on the side. Have made a fortune in the last month, luckily.
Good luck with it, and would be interested to hear how you get on.
Cheers.
Hi Chilli, thanks, im young so i guess if i dont have a go at something like this now then il never do it if/when i have people depending on me in the future
I wont be using the leveraged side of spread betting, its just the tax free part that sounds good to me
I know what a £10k+ day feels like but fortunately for me it was up
glad to hear your doing better now though
il still be on here keeping my thread up to date. il be curious to see how my attitude towards trades alters when i am depending on them as my sole source of income, how did you find it?
I wont be using the leveraged side of spread betting, its just the tax free part that sounds good to me
I know what a £10k+ day feels like but fortunately for me it was up
glad to hear your doing better now thoughil still be on here keeping my thread up to date. il be curious to see how my attitude towards trades alters when i am depending on them as my sole source of income, how did you find it?
Good stuff!
Thing for me was that I just couldn't accept the losses when they occured! Id have a say £1k stop loss, and I'd move it when it got close. Or I'd double it up, reducing the distance the original trade had to cover. I set myself targets, say £400 a day, and was easily doing this for the first month. Then a few went bad, and as above, I refused to let them go. Funny thing is, had I kept pumping the cash in I'd have retired by now!
My advice would be to stick to your guns, set limits and stick to them, and don't become too greedy...it's easily done!
Are you picking individual stocks?
Thing for me was that I just couldn't accept the losses when they occured! Id have a say £1k stop loss, and I'd move it when it got close. Or I'd double it up, reducing the distance the original trade had to cover. I set myself targets, say £400 a day, and was easily doing this for the first month. Then a few went bad, and as above, I refused to let them go. Funny thing is, had I kept pumping the cash in I'd have retired by now!
My advice would be to stick to your guns, set limits and stick to them, and don't become too greedy...it's easily done!
Are you picking individual stocks?
Ah right i suppose what you'v said there are the so called classic mistakes
As Shadow said I started The EWT Thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
As Shadow said I started The EWT Thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Never really understood this. Took a quick look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_wave_theory and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_betting#Financ... any of you lot make your living from this then?
OP, have you always been interested in this?
OP, have you always been interested in this?
Halb said:
Never really understood this. Took a quick look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_wave_theory and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_betting#Financ... any of you lot make your living from this then?
OP, have you always been interested in this?
I never got EWT but if Mat says he can do it, then good for him. I'm waiting for 2-3 years on to see how anyone who is buying now and being rewarded by buying at the bottom of the market will continue to trade profitably. Wait another 20 years, I guess, for the boom and bust cycle to take hold (oh, Gordon the Gambler said he put an end to that, didn't he).OP, have you always been interested in this?
Fing is, a niggling part of me says we're due another crash. Maybe I'm being paranoid.
Hi Halb, since i was young i have had an interest in the stock market. perhaps im a victim of growing up in a bull market, but about 2 years ago i started to get seriously interested, but i knew i had no chance of making money just by punting various shares so i came across an article about technical analysis and somehow got interested in elliot wave theory.
thats when i decided that before i put a penny into the market i would learn about how it works and how elliot wave theory worked, so i spent the next year or so just studying charts and EWT, and discovered that the majority of what i was thinking would happen happened and the few things that didnt happen as i had expected i was able to learn from and correct my interpretation of the theory
then i started with real money, and have had a very profitable 10 months.
T84 this is far from easy to make money on
WorAl do you mean spread betting or EWT?
Shadow in 2 years il be surprised if we still view the recent lows as the bottom! but for me the key is the risky small companies, mainly the energy sector. as they make discoveries (or not) they will move a lot, so i think i will be relying on them
The key to ewt is to know which waves to filter out because they can be waves on a smaller degree than the ones which are useful, thats what takes the most time to learn. once this is achieved its really a case of using a bit of simple maths to confirm the wave lengths are as they should be, and hence confirming the correct wave count
thats when i decided that before i put a penny into the market i would learn about how it works and how elliot wave theory worked, so i spent the next year or so just studying charts and EWT, and discovered that the majority of what i was thinking would happen happened and the few things that didnt happen as i had expected i was able to learn from and correct my interpretation of the theory
then i started with real money, and have had a very profitable 10 months.
T84 this is far from easy to make money on
WorAl do you mean spread betting or EWT?
Shadow in 2 years il be surprised if we still view the recent lows as the bottom! but for me the key is the risky small companies, mainly the energy sector. as they make discoveries (or not) they will move a lot, so i think i will be relying on them
The key to ewt is to know which waves to filter out because they can be waves on a smaller degree than the ones which are useful, thats what takes the most time to learn. once this is achieved its really a case of using a bit of simple maths to confirm the wave lengths are as they should be, and hence confirming the correct wave count
johnfm said:
Chilli
What sort of £ / point were you trading to make £400/ a day 'easy'?
Were you intra day trading on volatile securities, or was your £400 a day a nominal daily return from longer term trades?
In and out daily. £10 per point, occasionally £20. In volatile times, it is relatively straight forward(!!). However, the amount of times I've watched it (The Dow) Bounce off a level, twice, drop 50 points, twice, then I'd get in only to see it continue to fall. I don't pretend to know what's going on, but I can read trends/carts pretty well. Still, you cant beat a bit of luck!What sort of £ / point were you trading to make £400/ a day 'easy'?
Were you intra day trading on volatile securities, or was your £400 a day a nominal daily return from longer term trades?
matsmith said:
1) Shadow in 2 years il be surprised if we still view the recent lows as the bottom! but for me the key is the risky small companies, mainly the energy sector. as they make discoveries (or not) they will move a lot, so i think i will be relying on them
2) The key to ewt is to know which waves to filter out because they can be waves on a smaller degree than the ones which are useful, thats what takes the most time to learn. once this is achieved its really a case of using a bit of simple maths to confirm the wave lengths are as they should be, and hence confirming the correct wave count
1) Tell me more! What's your thinking on recent lows?2) The key to ewt is to know which waves to filter out because they can be waves on a smaller degree than the ones which are useful, thats what takes the most time to learn. once this is achieved its really a case of using a bit of simple maths to confirm the wave lengths are as they should be, and hence confirming the correct wave count
2) Yes, I gathered that it wasn't as straightforward as it first seemed.
matsmith said:
Hi Halb, since i was young i have had an interest in the stock market. perhaps im a victim of growing up in a bull market, but about 2 years ago i started to get seriously interested, but i knew i had no chance of making money just by punting various shares so i came across an article about technical analysis and somehow got interested in elliot wave theory.
thats when i decided that before i put a penny into the market i would learn about how it works and how elliot wave theory worked, so i spent the next year or so just studying charts and EWT, and discovered that the majority of what i was thinking would happen happened and the few things that didnt happen as i had expected i was able to learn from and correct my interpretation of the theory
then i started with real money, and have had a very profitable 10 months.
T84 this is far from easy to make money on
WorAl do you mean spread betting or EWT?
Shadow in 2 years il be surprised if we still view the recent lows as the bottom! but for me the key is the risky small companies, mainly the energy sector. as they make discoveries (or not) they will move a lot, so i think i will be relying on them
The key to ewt is to know which waves to filter out because they can be waves on a smaller degree than the ones which are useful, thats what takes the most time to learn. once this is achieved its really a case of using a bit of simple maths to confirm the wave lengths are as they should be, and hence confirming the correct wave count
I assumed EWT has its roots in 'after the event' fitting of cycles to a cyclic time series of events.thats when i decided that before i put a penny into the market i would learn about how it works and how elliot wave theory worked, so i spent the next year or so just studying charts and EWT, and discovered that the majority of what i was thinking would happen happened and the few things that didnt happen as i had expected i was able to learn from and correct my interpretation of the theory
then i started with real money, and have had a very profitable 10 months.
T84 this is far from easy to make money on
WorAl do you mean spread betting or EWT?
Shadow in 2 years il be surprised if we still view the recent lows as the bottom! but for me the key is the risky small companies, mainly the energy sector. as they make discoveries (or not) they will move a lot, so i think i will be relying on them
The key to ewt is to know which waves to filter out because they can be waves on a smaller degree than the ones which are useful, thats what takes the most time to learn. once this is achieved its really a case of using a bit of simple maths to confirm the wave lengths are as they should be, and hence confirming the correct wave count
I assume it draws heavily on what I believe we are 'betting' on - not the underlying fundamentals of company A or B - but on the flock mentality of the traders.
Not being funny, but how can you on one hand use EWT to 'predict' crowd behaviour and then mention 'discoveries' made by fledging companies. I cannot see how they relate.
It depends what becomes our "high" shadow, if the FTSE100 recent high of approx 4790 turns out to be the high then the next move is down to 1400-1500, i believe we will get to 5100 first, which would give us a low target of 1700, but whilst im holding im not buying anything at these levels
Of course there will be massive bounces on the way down as we correct, so there will be opportunity for profit, but im learning as much as i can about put options at the mo because they seem quite attractive!
John, fortunately for me i came into this whole thing whilst we were in the middle of a *EWT geek term alert* Grand Supercyclic wave, so I just had to identify where we were in that and take it from there, but EWT also shows major reversals as well as short term reversals in the market, looking back at the ftse chart it was "obviously" topped out at 6700, but whether id have really identified that had i been trading at the time is another question that id be kidding myself if i tried to answer
take VOG as a good example, they have virtually doubled in the last few days, and absolutely nothing has happened, not an ounce of news yet. I use EWT to give me the best possible entries and exits, im not always perfect with them but a million times closer than id be if i was punting it. My taregt for them is 80p but i just can bring myself to believe it yet, but i can now see a good path to around 14p
GKP is another good example, they hit their bottom perfectly which gave me the confidence to buy, but at that point i didnt have an accurate exit point just a few possibilities which seemed impossible at the time, but thanks to EWT i was able to get in fairly near to the bottom (i bought a day or 2 after they bottomed)
then once we had some movement and the waves built up I was able to identify possible routes and as a result of that probably exit points, then as more waves developed things became/become clearer. im not for a second suggesting that they would have come up to 37p regardless of whether they found that oil, there was always the risk that the well was a failure, but basically with the oil explorers ewt has the purpose of helping get the best possible entry, which is 80% of the battle in my opinion
Of course there will be massive bounces on the way down as we correct, so there will be opportunity for profit, but im learning as much as i can about put options at the mo because they seem quite attractive!
John, fortunately for me i came into this whole thing whilst we were in the middle of a *EWT geek term alert* Grand Supercyclic wave, so I just had to identify where we were in that and take it from there, but EWT also shows major reversals as well as short term reversals in the market, looking back at the ftse chart it was "obviously" topped out at 6700, but whether id have really identified that had i been trading at the time is another question that id be kidding myself if i tried to answer
take VOG as a good example, they have virtually doubled in the last few days, and absolutely nothing has happened, not an ounce of news yet. I use EWT to give me the best possible entries and exits, im not always perfect with them but a million times closer than id be if i was punting it. My taregt for them is 80p but i just can bring myself to believe it yet, but i can now see a good path to around 14p
GKP is another good example, they hit their bottom perfectly which gave me the confidence to buy, but at that point i didnt have an accurate exit point just a few possibilities which seemed impossible at the time, but thanks to EWT i was able to get in fairly near to the bottom (i bought a day or 2 after they bottomed)
then once we had some movement and the waves built up I was able to identify possible routes and as a result of that probably exit points, then as more waves developed things became/become clearer. im not for a second suggesting that they would have come up to 37p regardless of whether they found that oil, there was always the risk that the well was a failure, but basically with the oil explorers ewt has the purpose of helping get the best possible entry, which is 80% of the battle in my opinion
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff