State pension age
Discussion
Looking at the outrage, protests etc. with the changes to farm inheritance tax where were the protests when state pension age was increased by two years with the possibility of another year being discussed?
Look at the Poll Tax riots in the 90s and the additional cost of that wasn’t the equivalent of £12K a year back then.
Is it because it’s a surreptitious removal of future benefit rather than the here and now? People can’t see that far ahead that every year of delay robs people of £12,000 that the governments have given to those that predate future retirees and committed to give future retirees when they started working.
I’m not interested in the claimed reasons/necessity for the changes and neither are the farmers.
Look at the Poll Tax riots in the 90s and the additional cost of that wasn’t the equivalent of £12K a year back then.
Is it because it’s a surreptitious removal of future benefit rather than the here and now? People can’t see that far ahead that every year of delay robs people of £12,000 that the governments have given to those that predate future retirees and committed to give future retirees when they started working.
I’m not interested in the claimed reasons/necessity for the changes and neither are the farmers.
I think the problem is unless we end up going to riots and burning down the building of parliament there is nothing we can do about. At this stage the gov are just playing cat and mouse with the general working class to see how long they can turn the screw before they erupt.
The government are con men. I refuse to believe they don't have enough money for public services such as the NHS and pensions etc etc. They are just really good at wasting it and abusing that money so it looks like they need more and more.
The government are con men. I refuse to believe they don't have enough money for public services such as the NHS and pensions etc etc. They are just really good at wasting it and abusing that money so it looks like they need more and more.
Chamon_Lee said:
The government are con men. I refuse to believe they don't have enough money for public services such as the NHS and pensions etc etc. They are just really good at wasting it and abusing that money so it looks like they need more and more.
It isn't just the Government - it's the Civil Service who run the country: note that none of these changes affect their DB pensions. The cost of providing these Civil Service pensions is beyond unaffordable but the Civil Servcie won't allow any Goverment to address the issue in any meaningful way. Mr Pointy said:
It isn't just the Government - it's the Civil Service who run the country:
This is the real problem, too many civil servants in DEFRA to Farmers, too many civil servants in the MOD to military personnel, too many civil servants in the NHS to clinicians.........Reeves to employ an extra 3180 at HMRC but I spent an hour and a half on the phone to them on Friday to explain that they had got my simple tax wrong.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
I think most right minded people can see that the retirement age must rise. (Although most right minded people think this should only apply to others 
)
When pensions were designed most people died in their sixties.
Or why not say that you can retire when you have paid 50 years (or some other number) of NI. So those that start work at 18 get to claim their state pension at 68)When pensions were designed most people died in their sixties.
Slow.Patrol said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
I think most right minded people can see that the retirement age must rise. (Although most right minded people think this should only apply to others )
When pensions were designed most people died in their sixties.
Or why not say that you can retire when you have paid 50 years (or some other number) of NI. So those that start work at 18 get to claim their state pension at 68)When pensions were designed most people died in their sixties.
Jawls said:
OddCat said:
They should synchronise with the State Pension Age the age at which Civil Servants can take their final salary pensions.
It already is. If they take it earlier, there is a significant penalty to the annual payment (which is fair, since you’d be drawing it for longer).
Mr Pointy said:
Chamon_Lee said:
The government are con men. I refuse to believe they don't have enough money for public services such as the NHS and pensions etc etc. They are just really good at wasting it and abusing that money so it looks like they need more and more.
It isn't just the Government - it's the Civil Service who run the country: note that none of these changes affect their DB pensions. The cost of providing these Civil Service pensions is beyond unaffordable but the Civil Servcie won't allow any Goverment to address the issue in any meaningful way. Well done brother. I too will not rest until the last DB scheme member has been riven and rendered to ashes in the holy purifying fire of the market!!
Edited by PlywoodPascal on Monday 25th November 09:54
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
I think most right minded people can see that the retirement age must rise. (Although most right minded people think this should only apply to others )
When pensions were designed most people died in their sixties.
This… )When pensions were designed most people died in their sixties.
Nobody likes it as an individual
Many people see that collectively case to raise is pretty watertight.
The alternative is just more and more tax on a shrinking working populace.
Hol said:
Jawls said:
OddCat said:
They should synchronise with the State Pension Age the age at which Civil Servants can take their final salary pensions.
It already is. If they take it earlier, there is a significant penalty to the annual payment (which is fair, since you’d be drawing it for longer).
Dixy said:
This is the real problem, too many civil servants in DEFRA to Farmers, too many civil servants in the MOD to military personnel, too many civil servants in the NHS to clinicians.........
Reeves to employ an extra 3180 at HMRC but I spent an hour and a half on the phone to them on Friday to explain that they had got my simple tax wrong.
You don't see the logic in that?Reeves to employ an extra 3180 at HMRC but I spent an hour and a half on the phone to them on Friday to explain that they had got my simple tax wrong.
Maybe is she employs an extra 3k staff at HMRC you and won't need to spend 90 minutes on the phone?
Jawls said:
OddCat said:
They should synchronise with the State Pension Age the age at which Civil Servants can take their final salary pensions.
It already is. If they take it earlier, there is a significant penalty to the annual payment (which is fair, since you’d be drawing it for longer).
Slightly left field and tin foil hat reason...
The adjustment of taxes on farmers mostly impacted the wealthy. It's been proven that those who invested in agricultural land did so to avoid taxes, and this is the group it impacted the most. This group have the means to organise protests, which don't just happen, they are planned, and that needs money. All the media attention doesn't just happen, it needs influence from the right people, all the sob stories about a hard done farmer are planted by those with influence.
The rich aren't impacted by moving pension ages out, they don't care. Big businesses don't care. In fact, the comfortable don't care either, as they have private pensions. The poor and lower middle don't have the means to organise mass protests or influence the media, they don't have a voice.
The adjustment of taxes on farmers mostly impacted the wealthy. It's been proven that those who invested in agricultural land did so to avoid taxes, and this is the group it impacted the most. This group have the means to organise protests, which don't just happen, they are planned, and that needs money. All the media attention doesn't just happen, it needs influence from the right people, all the sob stories about a hard done farmer are planted by those with influence.
The rich aren't impacted by moving pension ages out, they don't care. Big businesses don't care. In fact, the comfortable don't care either, as they have private pensions. The poor and lower middle don't have the means to organise mass protests or influence the media, they don't have a voice.
Jiebo said:
Slightly left field and tin foil hat reason...
The adjustment of taxes on farmers mostly impacted the wealthy. It's been proven that those who invested in agricultural land did so to avoid taxes, and this is the group it impacted the most. This group have the means to organise protests, which don't just happen, they are planned, and that needs money. All the media attention doesn't just happen, it needs influence from the right people, all the sob stories about a hard done farmer are planted by those with influence.
The rich aren't impacted by moving pension ages out, they don't care. Big businesses don't care. In fact, the comfortable don't care either, as they have private pensions. The poor and lower middle don't have the means to organise mass protests or influence the media, they don't have a voice.
I think this is correct. Withdrawal of the WFA, was too trival for most pensioners to worry about, the ones who did don't have a voice.The adjustment of taxes on farmers mostly impacted the wealthy. It's been proven that those who invested in agricultural land did so to avoid taxes, and this is the group it impacted the most. This group have the means to organise protests, which don't just happen, they are planned, and that needs money. All the media attention doesn't just happen, it needs influence from the right people, all the sob stories about a hard done farmer are planted by those with influence.
The rich aren't impacted by moving pension ages out, they don't care. Big businesses don't care. In fact, the comfortable don't care either, as they have private pensions. The poor and lower middle don't have the means to organise mass protests or influence the media, they don't have a voice.
Pails compared to the WASPI's.
My mum was in the exact worse year for it. Can't remember if she lost 5 or 6 years just like that.
Back to the original question I think it's because for most people it feels a long way off. If they said we're taking £20+k off you for the next couple of year then there would be an outcry.
My mum was in the exact worse year for it. Can't remember if she lost 5 or 6 years just like that.
Back to the original question I think it's because for most people it feels a long way off. If they said we're taking £20+k off you for the next couple of year then there would be an outcry.
Jiebo said:
Slightly left field and tin foil hat reason...
The adjustment of taxes on farmers mostly impacted the wealthy. It's been proven that those who invested in agricultural land did so to avoid taxes, and this is the group it impacted the most. This group have the means to organise protests, which don't just happen, they are planned, and that needs money. All the media attention doesn't just happen, it needs influence from the right people, all the sob stories about a hard done farmer are planted by those with influence.
The rich aren't impacted by moving pension ages out, they don't care. Big businesses don't care. In fact, the comfortable don't care either, as they have private pensions. The poor and lower middle don't have the means to organise mass protests or influence the media, they don't have a voice.
The very poor don't care either, it's not going to make any difference if you've been living on benefits for years before. The adjustment of taxes on farmers mostly impacted the wealthy. It's been proven that those who invested in agricultural land did so to avoid taxes, and this is the group it impacted the most. This group have the means to organise protests, which don't just happen, they are planned, and that needs money. All the media attention doesn't just happen, it needs influence from the right people, all the sob stories about a hard done farmer are planted by those with influence.
The rich aren't impacted by moving pension ages out, they don't care. Big businesses don't care. In fact, the comfortable don't care either, as they have private pensions. The poor and lower middle don't have the means to organise mass protests or influence the media, they don't have a voice.
It's just the actual working class and lower middle class that will really feel it.
Jiebo said:
Slightly left field and tin foil hat reason...
The adjustment of taxes on farmers mostly impacted the wealthy. It's been proven that those who invested in agricultural land did so to avoid taxes, and this is the group it impacted the most. This group have the means to organise protests, which don't just happen, they are planned, and that needs money. All the media attention doesn't just happen, it needs influence from the right people, all the sob stories about a hard done farmer are planted by those with influence.
The rich aren't impacted by moving pension ages out, they don't care. Big businesses don't care. In fact, the comfortable don't care either, as they have private pensions. The poor and lower middle don't have the means to organise mass protests or influence the media, they don't have a voice.
Put the tin foil back in the drawer. It is exactly as you propose.The adjustment of taxes on farmers mostly impacted the wealthy. It's been proven that those who invested in agricultural land did so to avoid taxes, and this is the group it impacted the most. This group have the means to organise protests, which don't just happen, they are planned, and that needs money. All the media attention doesn't just happen, it needs influence from the right people, all the sob stories about a hard done farmer are planted by those with influence.
The rich aren't impacted by moving pension ages out, they don't care. Big businesses don't care. In fact, the comfortable don't care either, as they have private pensions. The poor and lower middle don't have the means to organise mass protests or influence the media, they don't have a voice.
The constant uproar around farming tax is due to the policy being a tax on the rich and the rich have power and influence.
The story of poor farming families living hand to mouth being decimated by this policy is a misnomer to resonate with the common man, an attempt to whip up public opinion, a nonsense.
I would wager there are quite a majority of working class families that would like to be asset rich.......
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