Boomer life according to the economist
Discussion
I wonder if life was like that for Boomers in the UK:
[quote]The 1950s were a good decade to be born in Britain. A newly minted welfare state ensured that your early years were free from squalor. For the lucky few who made it there, university cost nothing. During your peak earning years, taxes plunged thanks to Margaret Thatcher, oil gushing from the North Sea and the restorative effect of the EU’s single market on the sick man of Europe. Rocketing house prices more than compensated for a few years of high interest rates. Defined-benefit pension schemes, then still the norm, ensured that retirement would be prosperous.
Whatever this generation wanted, this generation nearly always got. ........
[/quote]
source: the economist over https://archive.is/aWdik#selection-1079.0-1093.67
I think the economist forgot about some classes, i.e. working class.
Or is the UK mainstream really like that???
[quote]The 1950s were a good decade to be born in Britain. A newly minted welfare state ensured that your early years were free from squalor. For the lucky few who made it there, university cost nothing. During your peak earning years, taxes plunged thanks to Margaret Thatcher, oil gushing from the North Sea and the restorative effect of the EU’s single market on the sick man of Europe. Rocketing house prices more than compensated for a few years of high interest rates. Defined-benefit pension schemes, then still the norm, ensured that retirement would be prosperous.
Whatever this generation wanted, this generation nearly always got. ........
[/quote]
source: the economist over https://archive.is/aWdik#selection-1079.0-1093.67
I think the economist forgot about some classes, i.e. working class.
Or is the UK mainstream really like that???
My parents were /are boomers. My dad is very resourceful and clever with money but also a bloody grafter so would have made it in any economical situation. My mum a nurse so safe job well well enough paid at the time until me and my sister came along then stopped.
But it was a good period for the 4 above that my grandparents.
Just too young for the war for 3 of them to really remember and 1 in the raf.
The two grannies raised two and four kids each in moderate houses with very minor part time jobs.
The grandads worked in a sawmill the other a coal miner and a trucker so very much working class households. Both with 3 bed semis the same one they started a family in.
My patents are vastly more wealthy than me but I did benefit from that with some extremely lucky to do hobbies at a young age.
Property house prices everything was cheaper in relative terms for them but then cars are much cheaper now for my generation though its getting worse now.
But it was a good period for the 4 above that my grandparents.
Just too young for the war for 3 of them to really remember and 1 in the raf.
The two grannies raised two and four kids each in moderate houses with very minor part time jobs.
The grandads worked in a sawmill the other a coal miner and a trucker so very much working class households. Both with 3 bed semis the same one they started a family in.
My patents are vastly more wealthy than me but I did benefit from that with some extremely lucky to do hobbies at a young age.
Property house prices everything was cheaper in relative terms for them but then cars are much cheaper now for my generation though its getting worse now.
Crumpet said:
It seems to me that any tax cuts that benefit the young or any increases that target the old are neither here nor there when compared to the huge advantage the boomers had with property prices and the massive disadvantage the young have with trying to buy that property off them!
It's not really "disposable" wealth as such. Afaics the property boom benefits the kids more when they inherit. My dad has quite a large house but he can't really sell it because him and my mum would still need somewhere to live, they would need/want to be close to family/freinds and so on. The biggest beneficiaries will probably be the grandkids. Countdown said:
It's not really "disposable" wealth as such. Afaics the property boom benefits the kids more when they inherit. My dad has quite a large house but he can't really sell it because him and my mum would still need somewhere to live, they would need/want to be close to family/freinds and so on. The biggest beneficiaries will probably be the grandkids.
How high is the % of homeownership vs population?If 80 % own houses it'd be more than OK.
My Mum didn't have hot water or a toilet/bath in the house - it was at the bottom of the garden. My Dad was born in a metal bath tub in the front room of a Victorian terrace. Neither of them had it easy at the start nor easy throughout their life. It was a case of work hard to get the results. I remember my Mum telling us how we were "on the breadline" as my Dad was starting a new self-employed career. They were not by any means unusual in my neck of the woods (East Midlands), in fact they were somewhere in the middle.
So some people now can't buy a house in some areas - it's inevitable as we aren't creating any more land and we need to balance the space we have between housing and other requirements - but the quality of life is so good, and so convenient that we really don't know how good we have it. Social mobility is significantly higher, medical care is extremely well developed (granted access to it is now inconsistent), we have the Internet, a global job market, and easy access to cheap global travel.
I just fit into the milleniaI bracket yet I am significantly better off than my parents. There's no way that I would be in the position I'm in if born in my parents era. For one my career didn't exist, and if it did then the upper levels would have been the preserve of those in a higher social class.
It seems to me the easier we have it the more some sections of society will whinge.
So some people now can't buy a house in some areas - it's inevitable as we aren't creating any more land and we need to balance the space we have between housing and other requirements - but the quality of life is so good, and so convenient that we really don't know how good we have it. Social mobility is significantly higher, medical care is extremely well developed (granted access to it is now inconsistent), we have the Internet, a global job market, and easy access to cheap global travel.
I just fit into the milleniaI bracket yet I am significantly better off than my parents. There's no way that I would be in the position I'm in if born in my parents era. For one my career didn't exist, and if it did then the upper levels would have been the preserve of those in a higher social class.
It seems to me the easier we have it the more some sections of society will whinge.
NickZ24 said:
I wonder if life was like that for Boomers in the UK:
Or is the UK mainstream really like that???
No it wasn't like that for the mainstream, I have never had a DB pension nor has anyone I grew up with, apart from a few that ended up in the public sector, who, yes, have retired early on ludicrous pensions unimagineable to the rest of us.Economist said:
Defined-benefit pension schemes, then still the norm, ensured that retirement would be prosperous.
I think the economist forgot about some classes, i.e. working class. Or is the UK mainstream really like that???
Even then I had to cash in my first couple of DC pensions to get a deposit for our first house when interest rates were heading north of 10%.
mwstewart said:
My Mum didn't have hot water or a toilet/bath in the house - it was at the bottom of the garden. My Dad was born in a metal bath tub in the front room of a Victorian terrace. Neither of them had it easy at the start nor easy throughout their life. It was a case of work hard to get the results. I remember my Mum telling us how we were "on the breadline" as my Dad was starting a new self-employed career. They were not by any means unusual in my neck of the woods (East Midlands), in fact they were somewhere in the middle.
So some people now can't buy a house in some areas - it's inevitable as we aren't creating any more land and we need to balance the space we have between housing and other requirements - but the quality of life is so good, and so convenient that we really don't know how good we have it. Social mobility is significantly higher, medical care is extremely well developed (granted access to it is now inconsistent), we have the Internet, a global job market, and easy access to cheap global travel.
I just fit into the milleniaI bracket yet I am significantly better off than my parents. There's no way that I would be in the position I'm in if born in my parents era. For one my career didn't exist, and if it did then the upper levels would have been the preserve of those in a higher social class.
It seems to me the easier we have it the more some sections of society will whinge.
Agreed.So some people now can't buy a house in some areas - it's inevitable as we aren't creating any more land and we need to balance the space we have between housing and other requirements - but the quality of life is so good, and so convenient that we really don't know how good we have it. Social mobility is significantly higher, medical care is extremely well developed (granted access to it is now inconsistent), we have the Internet, a global job market, and easy access to cheap global travel.
I just fit into the milleniaI bracket yet I am significantly better off than my parents. There's no way that I would be in the position I'm in if born in my parents era. For one my career didn't exist, and if it did then the upper levels would have been the preserve of those in a higher social class.
It seems to me the easier we have it the more some sections of society will whinge.
The article has a couple of leanings that almost make it fall over. Lucky enough to go to uni? Being born with a spare brain cell or more still requires use of it / them, and Blair's expansion of Higher Education to 50% entry was pure egalitarian delusion which has done very little for too many young people emerging from third rate institutions with third rate degrees and a lot of debt. No naming and shaming on PH. Then there's the wheeze about EU membership healing the UK economy, work from Professor Whiteley shows that Britain's economy did <not> receive a boost afte joining the EU, it merely continuing along the same trend. It's necessary to wait for other factors and then attribute them to the EU.
Having looked at the content, the origin would appear to be a non-boomer (or non-boomers) who voted Remain and can't cope with either.
3/10
Parents both boomers (late 40s-late 50s), I'm early millennial.
We live in a bigger house than I did when growing up and my dad was the same age as I am now. My childhood family home was a 3 bed mid-terrace in West Sussex, we're in a detached 4 bed in the East Midlands with no hope of ever affording a similar property down South.
Probably the most noticeable difference is that I would say I am in a more senior/well paid position than my dad ever held. If you took the sweeping assumption that someone on the Xth percentile of the income scale should be able to afford something Xth +/-10% of the property market, then I'm not even close to that though even in the East Mids. I'm well aware of how fortunate my own position is and simultaneously mortified by the number of people in the country that see their chance of home ownership move away faster than they can save a deposit. Fundamentally I think the huge inflation of property prices is the biggest limitation to inter-generational prosperity.
We live in a bigger house than I did when growing up and my dad was the same age as I am now. My childhood family home was a 3 bed mid-terrace in West Sussex, we're in a detached 4 bed in the East Midlands with no hope of ever affording a similar property down South.
Probably the most noticeable difference is that I would say I am in a more senior/well paid position than my dad ever held. If you took the sweeping assumption that someone on the Xth percentile of the income scale should be able to afford something Xth +/-10% of the property market, then I'm not even close to that though even in the East Mids. I'm well aware of how fortunate my own position is and simultaneously mortified by the number of people in the country that see their chance of home ownership move away faster than they can save a deposit. Fundamentally I think the huge inflation of property prices is the biggest limitation to inter-generational prosperity.
Countdown said:
It's not really "disposable" wealth as such. Afaics the property boom benefits the kids more when they inherit. My dad has quite a large house but he can't really sell it because him and my mum would still need somewhere to live, they would need/want to be close to family/freinds and so on. The biggest beneficiaries will probably be the grandkids.
The kids only benefit if the "boomer" parents don't end up needing some form of long term elderly care which results in the house being sold to pay for the care home, I have seen it happen first hand with both my grandma's who weren't massively wealthy but had their own houses and savings and both ended up needing residential care homes which meant very little inheritance in the end for their children (my parents). My parents had it quite easy really, fairly basic small retail business bought a lifestyle that wouldn’t be possible today. Their parents the same. Died in a 7 figure house that was brought with the proceeds of a small retail business.
The internet and major chain stores have killed the ability to even have a business like the ones they had. They became millionaires over the course of a couple of decades by doing nothing more than sitting in their house - I doubt they spent more than a few grand on it the entire 16 years I lived there. s
thole despite the amazing setting/potential it had. Thankfully the bloke who owns it now did it justice and I’m sure the same can be said of my grand parents place too.
Meanwhile my wife and I have both owned property for over a decade now. I’d imagine we are about £300k up on a far greater purchase price across 3 properties so we won’t automatically become millionaires sitting here doing nothing. Work wise we are within the top 1% as individual earners, no idea on combined, yet it would be touch and go as to whether we could afford to buy the house I grew up in. Her parents actually the same when they were about. Fairly modest business owner, sent 3 kids to private school and lived in what is easily a £1.5m house today.
Sending 3 kids to private school now requires a LOT of money, let alone living in a lovely house and still going on holiday too. I am under no illusion all of the above people were over average in their income but still.
In fact it’s just reminded me, neighbour had a small plumbing business, large house, tennis court, swimming pool, bee Range Rover every year. House today likely around £2m. Not a chance a plumber with a couple of vans is doing that now.
The internet and major chain stores have killed the ability to even have a business like the ones they had. They became millionaires over the course of a couple of decades by doing nothing more than sitting in their house - I doubt they spent more than a few grand on it the entire 16 years I lived there. s
thole despite the amazing setting/potential it had. Thankfully the bloke who owns it now did it justice and I’m sure the same can be said of my grand parents place too. Meanwhile my wife and I have both owned property for over a decade now. I’d imagine we are about £300k up on a far greater purchase price across 3 properties so we won’t automatically become millionaires sitting here doing nothing. Work wise we are within the top 1% as individual earners, no idea on combined, yet it would be touch and go as to whether we could afford to buy the house I grew up in. Her parents actually the same when they were about. Fairly modest business owner, sent 3 kids to private school and lived in what is easily a £1.5m house today.
Sending 3 kids to private school now requires a LOT of money, let alone living in a lovely house and still going on holiday too. I am under no illusion all of the above people were over average in their income but still.
In fact it’s just reminded me, neighbour had a small plumbing business, large house, tennis court, swimming pool, bee Range Rover every year. House today likely around £2m. Not a chance a plumber with a couple of vans is doing that now.
Countdown said:
It's not really "disposable" wealth as such. Afaics the property boom benefits the kids more when they inherit. My dad has quite a large house but he can't really sell it because him and my mum would still need somewhere to live, they would need/want to be close to family/freinds and so on. The biggest beneficiaries will probably be the grandkids.
Strange logic. Your dad could easily sell his large house and live somewhere smaller with his wife and pocket the equity. Badda said:
Countdown said:
It's not really "disposable" wealth as such. Afaics the property boom benefits the kids more when they inherit. My dad has quite a large house but he can't really sell it because him and my mum would still need somewhere to live, they would need/want to be close to family/freinds and so on. The biggest beneficiaries will probably be the grandkids.
Strange logic. Your dad could easily sell his large house and live somewhere smaller with his wife and pocket the equity. okgo said:
My parents had it quite easy really, fairly basic small retail business bought a lifestyle that wouldn’t be possible today. Their parents the same. Died in a 7 figure house that was brought with the proceeds of a small retail business.
The internet and major chain stores have killed the ability to even have a business like the ones they had. They became millionaires over the course of a couple of decades by doing nothing more than sitting in their house - I doubt they spent more than a few grand on it the entire 16 years I lived there. sthole despite the amazing setting/potential it had. Thankfully the bloke who owns it now did it justice and I’m sure the same can be said of my grand parents place too.
Meanwhile my wife and I have both owned property for over a decade now. I’d imagine we are about £300k up on a far greater purchase price across 3 properties so we won’t automatically become millionaires sitting here doing nothing. Work wise we are within the top 1% as individual earners, no idea on combined, yet it would be touch and go as to whether we could afford to buy the house I grew up in. Her parents actually the same when they were about. Fairly modest business owner, sent 3 kids to private school and lived in what is easily a £1.5m house today.
Sending 3 kids to private school now requires a LOT of money, let alone living in a lovely house and still going on holiday too. I am under no illusion all of the above people were over average in their income but still.
In fact it’s just reminded me, neighbour had a small plumbing business, large house, tennis court, swimming pool, bee Range Rover every year. House today likely around £2m. Not a chance a plumber with a couple of vans is doing that now.
Similar story for me - they certainly had it easy although they never acknowledge it. Both my boomer parents came from money and were given a leg up on the property ladder in their late 20s early 30s. My father squandered numerous employment opportunities in his youth and subsequently bumbled along with a moderately successful retail business. My mother did a bit of book keeping work here and there but has never been career focused. The internet and major chain stores have killed the ability to even have a business like the ones they had. They became millionaires over the course of a couple of decades by doing nothing more than sitting in their house - I doubt they spent more than a few grand on it the entire 16 years I lived there. s
thole despite the amazing setting/potential it had. Thankfully the bloke who owns it now did it justice and I’m sure the same can be said of my grand parents place too. Meanwhile my wife and I have both owned property for over a decade now. I’d imagine we are about £300k up on a far greater purchase price across 3 properties so we won’t automatically become millionaires sitting here doing nothing. Work wise we are within the top 1% as individual earners, no idea on combined, yet it would be touch and go as to whether we could afford to buy the house I grew up in. Her parents actually the same when they were about. Fairly modest business owner, sent 3 kids to private school and lived in what is easily a £1.5m house today.
Sending 3 kids to private school now requires a LOT of money, let alone living in a lovely house and still going on holiday too. I am under no illusion all of the above people were over average in their income but still.
In fact it’s just reminded me, neighbour had a small plumbing business, large house, tennis court, swimming pool, bee Range Rover every year. House today likely around £2m. Not a chance a plumber with a couple of vans is doing that now.
They now sit on property, which they could categorically not afford to buy now. They have plenty friends in similar scenarios. Most are asset rich and cash poor.
By most accounts I'm doing well for myself, likewise my brother for that matter. We've both had to be very focused compared to our parents (their failings as breadwinners partly gave us that drive) and yet we would struggle to afford their property.
NickZ24 said:
I think the economist forgot about some classes, i.e. working class.
My GF's parents are very much working class, no thought of going to university. They've got a very nice house, and he has an excellent final salary pension.They frequently grumble about having had to pay 15% mortgage rates, but when you look at LTV, the fraction of take home pay it cost them is less than typical mortgages are now due to much higher house valuations, they ignore MIRAS, and conveniently gloss over that their son can't afford to buy somewhere and they've done SFA to help him with some capital to do so.
turbobloke said:
Easily? You missed the bit about wanting to be close to family and friends. In addition, it's not always that "easy" to move nearby and be in a house significantly smaller with money from the difference in their account. Houses tend to be in groups of about the same size and value. There's also the emotional attachment that people in families have for the family home regardless of having friends and family nearby.
Life is not easy? How do you compare the EU lifestyle with say African in the woods kind of lifestyles?
The hardship of moving away from loved ones is not really harsh when seeing the distances of the US.
Depending on the year you wish to sell your houses most people have not sold anything.
FamousPheasant said:
Similar story for me - they certainly had it easy although they never acknowledge it. Both my boomer parents came from money and were given a leg up on the property ladder in their late 20s early 30s. My father squandered numerous employment opportunities in his youth and subsequently bumbled along with a moderately successful retail business. My mother did a bit of book keeping work here and there but has never been career focused.
They now sit on property, which they could categorically not afford to buy now. They have plenty friends in similar scenarios. Most are asset rich and cash poor.
By most accounts I'm doing well for myself, likewise my brother for that matter. We've both had to be very focused compared to our parents (their failings as breadwinners partly gave us that drive) and yet we would struggle to afford their property.
I personally can’t knock the work ethic of any of my family but rather it’s the financial reward/how far the reward went that I cannot get my head round. They now sit on property, which they could categorically not afford to buy now. They have plenty friends in similar scenarios. Most are asset rich and cash poor.
By most accounts I'm doing well for myself, likewise my brother for that matter. We've both had to be very focused compared to our parents (their failings as breadwinners partly gave us that drive) and yet we would struggle to afford their property.
Of course it depends on their attitude to how things have changed, and actually I think my lot are mostly pretty good in realising things are remarkably different now. But I’ve been involved with other folk of the same age in the past that spent wayyyyy beyond their means but endless property price inflation and remortgaging kept them ahead - they could never understand why we bought a flat ‘there’. A touch irritating.
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