First Time Buyer w/ No "Income" = No Mortgage?

[vikkyg85]

I am looking to buy a flat to live in, I have £80k in the bank and play online poker professionally for my income. I have consistent cashouts to my bank for the last 4 months and some small monthly cashouts for the 14 months before that.

Is there any way I can get a mortgage? I would like to buy something between £160k-£220k in Bristol.

If I cannot get a mortgage in my own name, would it be possible for my parents to buy the flat and/or pay the mortgage and I give them the money? I would want to own the property though and not have future CGT issues?

And finally I would like to get a Buy-To-Let property in the next couple of years, could I get this with deposit combined with expected rental value? Thanks guys

[Kudos]

I'll bet that the answer is no

[vikkyg85]

Maybe I should also make clear that I will continue playing poker and should continue to earn good money from doing so. I'm 24 and have a credit card, national savings bonds and an ISA.

Kudos said:

I'll bet that the answer is no

This is what I fear, but where there is a will, there's a way!

[vescaegg]

I'd say not even a remote chance. A steady income is needed for a mortgage which can show you WILL have the money for the foreseeable future. With gambling, you may or may not have any for the next year.

If your Internet goes down, you will not be able to (hopefully) make any money!

Would you lend yourself money on the basis that you are quite good a poker and will probably be able to pay you back?

[darreni]

No chance.

[IanMorewood]

From a previous life not a snowballs chance in hell, sorry.

[Fun Bus]

vikkyg85 said:

should continue to earn good money from doing so.

"Should" would not be acceptable to a lender. You'd be too big a risk.

[vescaegg]

Ill be the bank below;

If you think you are good enough that we will lend you a considerable sum of money, why not just bet big and get the cash yourself and buy outright? Or are you not that confident? Why not take the risk with your own money instead of ours?

[Sarnie]

Is your income declared to HMRC? If so, there is a chance. If not............

[vikkyg85]

I was thinking that potentially if I showed that I have the next 3/4/5 years payments in the bank, then this would be enough for me to get a mortgage for that period of time.

vescaegg said:

If your Internet goes down, you will not be able to (hopefully) make any money!

Would you lend yourself money on the basis that you are quite good a poker and will probably be able to pay you back?

I have 2 backup internet connections in place, but even switching to these in the event of a disconnection costs me quite a bit of money!

If I were a bank, I would lend myself the money on the above basis if the payments were in an account that I couldn't touch and was only used to make payments.

vescaegg said:

Why not just bet big and get the cash yourself and buy outright? Or are you not that confident? Why not take the risk with your own money instead of ours?

It doesn't quite work like that, but even if it did I wouldn't want to take that kind of risk or buy outright as I want to diversify my investments to minimise risk/volatility.

[vikkyg85]

Sarnie said:

Is your income declared to HMRC? If so, there is a chance. If not............

I haven't declared anything yet, I know that my income is not taxable, however I have not yet looked into whether or not I should inform the HMRC.

Edited by vikkyg85 on Thursday 4th July 23:48

[davepoth]

It may make more sense to do things the "wrong" way round - get the BTL first, as with a hefty deposit and money coming in from the rent you should have less trouble getting a mortgage. Presumably you'll be able to overpay that mortgage and clear it off in a few years, giving you a steady income stream that you can show to the mortgage people when you want an actual house.

[vescaegg]

vikkyg85 said:

Sarnie said:

Is your income declared to HMRC? If so, there is a chance. If not............

I haven't declared anything yet, I know that my income is not taxable, however I have not yet looked into whether or not I should inform the HMRC.

Are 'winnings' not taxable at all even if you do it on a sort of working basis?

[Kudos]

What's stopping you taking those accumulated winnings and betting them as you're "on a roll"?

[Eric Mc]

vikkyg85 said:

Sarnie said:

Is your income declared to HMRC? If so, there is a chance. If not............

I haven't declared anything yet, I know that my income is not taxable, however I have not yet looked into whether or not I should inform the HMRC.

Edited by vikkyg85 on Thursday 4th July 23:48

I think you should do that as a matter of urgency. Normally, gambling income is exempted from UK Income Tax - but there are exceptions so you should check it out.

Also, you may need to register for such items as Class 3 Voluntary NI contributions as I doubt you are building up any contributions for your state pension.

Finally, you may have some other sources of income which ARE taxable. If those sources are already taxed at source (such as bank interest) you may be OK but, again, checking your tax reporting requirements would be something I would do sooner rather than later.

From a mortgage application point of you - your income is too unreliable, unpredictable and incapable of 3rd party proof - so lenders would look on your application as way too risky.

[fido]

Seems to be a chick and egg thing? You can't get a mortgage without a taxable income .. and obviously you won't want to pay tax on non-taxable winnings(!) I know some of my contractor chums have got a mortgage using their Contract and Bank Statements but they do have proof for their source of income.

[Eric Mc]

It doesn't necessarilly have to be taxable income - but it should be PROOVABLE income.

[Guvernator]

I've had enough trouble getting a mortgage because I decided I'd have enough of making other people rich being a PAYE wage slave about 18 months ago and started my own company but apparently the fact that I am taking home probably twice what I was earning before isn't good enough. This is with rock solid proof of earnings with audited accounts.

Trying to get a mortgage based on "gambling earnings"....not a snowballs chance in hell.

Unfortunately our banking system seems to still be stuck in the dark ages.

[vikkyg85]

WeirdNeville said:

Sure, the OP has done well until now. What's to say he doesn't put himself 80k in the hole on some big gamble tomorrow though? It's not the same as earnings. It is unusual to find a gambler who remains in profit throughout their life. Someone better always comes along... the house always wins (and I appreciate that poker isn't a game of sheer chance).

For most people this is true, but not for me as I am backed to play, so the money I have is not the money I play with and therefore cannot be lost. I give up a percentage of my winnings in return for being given the bankroll I need to play my games.

Even if it was my bankroll, the stakes that I play are dictated by the amount of money in my bankroll, this is a calculation to reduce risk of ruin to almost 0 and therefore it would take me a long time to lose £80k. But I agree that for most people your points are very true.

[hman]

Its this simple, if you are that lucky at gambling just rent until you have enough money to purchase the property outright.

This will also save you paying back 3 times the value of the house over 25 years