Top 5 financial things to do before labour get in?

[eyebeebe]

Michael_B said:

Yes. there is a lot more local tax-raising: 12% of my annual income tax goes to the federal govt, 66% goes to the canton and 22% goes to the commune/parish. 88% is a lot, but not all.

And just to show how it can differ… on the other side of the country my split is 47%, 37%, 16% of a total tax of 9% of my gross income. Interestingly we basically don’t have a tax free allowance, which means that everyone contributes and has a stake in the system.

[ooid]

Perhaps more complicated than private individuals but with corporate finance structure, Boots famously moved it's headquarters to Switzerland many years ago and I remember again labour was trying to attack them.

[Michael_B]

RSTurboPaul said:

I read that as saying you were paying 12% + 66% + 22% to federal and local taxes...


... but a 100% tax rate would seem a bit harsh

Federal/cantonal/communal taxes (in the 12:66:22 ratio ) cost us (Mrs B and I are taxed as a couple) about 18% of gross income, the local equivalent of NI (taken at source by employers) another 6%, and obligatory private health insurance another 5% (and that would a lot higher if we hadn’t elected to have a £2k annual excess each.)

Taxes are high here (and tilted towards to the more affluent) compared to the rest of the country, as Geneva (canton and inner city) has been run by socialist (sometimes communist) groupings for many years. Personal allowances are so high that 25% of the population pay no tax at all, and the richest 1% of taxpayers contribute over 40% of total cantonal/communal budgets.

[911hope]

98elise said:

I agree in principal, but the vast majority of people don't have a spare 20k a year to put away (or 40k as a couple), so it's a big benefit for those that can. The yearly allowance used to be 5k

I do very well from my ISA S&S investments (far better than property) and its all tax free. I'd love it to continue but I don't think it will.

Until recently pensions had a lifetime allowance so its not a new concept to cap tax free saving.

The ISA limit has been frozen for a long time. In real terms it has been reduced substantially already.

Fiscal drag is a great tool for the dishonest politicians who claim tax cuts, while taking more.

No need to risk bad headlines, when a limit can be held or reduced in real terms.

[okgo]

I think it remains one of the more generous tax free vehicles naming developed nations.

[NRS]

okgo said:

Is taking half of my earned income not enough for the gov?

That is what grates. More more more. Despite the fact that everything they want more of has come from almost 50% taxed income.

Are they taking half of it? Or is it less once you add in all the rebates etc?

ooid said:

Perhaps more complicated than private individuals but with corporate finance structure, Boots famously moved it's headquarters to Switzerland many years ago and I remember again labour was trying to attack them.

That's often the sort of thing that results in people paying more tax. The actual tax rate as a % of GDP in the UK is pretty stable for a long time, it's just as companies "hide" more profits by stuff like sending all their profits to pay for "IP naming rights" and similar to Ireland to avoid tax it means people will have to pay more since companies pay less. Another classic is different companies within a larger business ownership buying stuff off each other in different countries and the price changing depending where they want to balance things to hide profits (i.e. UK company would make £100m profit, French company lost £50m then they fix prices so a lot of the profits go to France so the UK is neutral and avoids profits - then if it switches the next year they reverse it so both countries end up with less tax take than they "should").

[ferret50]

markymarkthree said:

ferret50 said:

markymarkthree said:

ferret50 said:

So I stand by my original statement that if State Pension rises above £12570 next April, Ikea Starmer will be the first PM to tax basic rate pensioners.

Well you will be pleased to know that there is no chance of that happening.

Well, perhaps not April 25, but if personal allowances are not raised then it is certain for April 26.

And remember, Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask.......

Nah, i cant see the gov pension going up nearly £2000 in 2 years. April 2027 is a poss.

'er indoors SP is £884.80, paid every 28 days, so 13 time a year, £11502.40pa so a rise of only £1067.60 is needed to place 'er into PAYE. Given 'triple lock plus', if not April '25, then clearly April '26.

Bad Labour, grrrrr!

[The Leaper]

mikeiow said:

The real question is whether you enjoyed your world in 2023/24.
Did you?
If so, then keeping 74% of your income isn’t too bad to enable that enjoyment, surely?

Paying tax is helping the Country keep working.
Without a crazy oil wealth fund, you need to gather those taxes to ensure your bins are emptied, schools working, NHS giving you what you need, etc etc etc.

Were you paying 40% tax when working? If so, 26% sounds a steal! If not, it still doesn’t sound horrendous.

The real question is whether you enjoyed your world in 2023/24.
Did you?......... Yes, and the years before
If so, then keeping 74% of your income isn’t too bad to enable that enjoyment, surely? .........But it is still a lot…where does all the money go?

Paying tax is helping the Country keep working.

Without a crazy oil wealth fund, you need to gather those taxes to ensure your bins are emptied, schools working, NHS giving you what you need, etc etc etc. .....................As regards bins and other local matters, I also pay council tax which is currently close on £4000 a year. I wouldn’t mind but I see little from this…we never see a road sweeper, never seen a police car here, the hedges required due to council planning requirements are never trimmed or maintained, grass verges are three feet high, etc

Were you paying 40% tax when working? If so, 26% sounds a steal! If not, it still doesn’t sound horrendous. ..............................Part of my working income was taxed at 40%, so is part my retirement income. The 26% rate is the overall tax rate for 2023/4 I have actually paid . So, it’s not a steal. As I said earlier, where does all the money go?

[The Leaper]

markymarkthree said:

ferret50 said:

markymarkthree said:

ferret50 said:

So I stand by my original statement that if State Pension rises above £12570 next April, Ikea Starmer will be the first PM to tax basic rate pensioners.

Well you will be pleased to know that there is no chance of that happening.

Well, perhaps not April 25, but if personal allowances are not raised then it is certain for April 26.

And remember, Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask.......

Nah, i cant see the gov pension going up nearly £2000 in 2 years. April 2027 is a poss.

The personal tax allowance is £12570. The maximum BASIC State pension is £11502.40 and could be more with additions. So the increase is not £2000 but more like £1000.

R.

[mikeiow]

The Leaper said:

mikeiow said:

The real question is whether you enjoyed your world in 2023/24.
Did you?
If so, then keeping 74% of your income isn’t too bad to enable that enjoyment, surely?

Paying tax is helping the Country keep working.
Without a crazy oil wealth fund, you need to gather those taxes to ensure your bins are emptied, schools working, NHS giving you what you need, etc etc etc.

Were you paying 40% tax when working? If so, 26% sounds a steal! If not, it still doesn’t sound horrendous.

The real question is whether you enjoyed your world in 2023/24.
Did you?......... Yes, and the years before
If so, then keeping 74% of your income isn’t too bad to enable that enjoyment, surely? .........But it is still a lot…where does all the money go?

Paying tax is helping the Country keep working.

Without a crazy oil wealth fund, you need to gather those taxes to ensure your bins are emptied, schools working, NHS giving you what you need, etc etc etc. .....................As regards bins and other local matters, I also pay council tax which is currently close on £4000 a year. I wouldn’t mind but I see little from this…we never see a road sweeper, never seen a police car here, the hedges required due to council planning requirements are never trimmed or maintained, grass verges are three feet high, etc

Were you paying 40% tax when working? If so, 26% sounds a steal! If not, it still doesn’t sound horrendous. ..............................Part of my working income was taxed at 40%, so is part my retirement income. The 26% rate is the overall tax rate for 2023/4 I have actually paid . So, it’s not a steal. As I said earlier, where does all the money go?

The bit in bold is the important bit - well done!
Keep it up & the world keeps moving forward.
Be grateful you have enough retirement income to be in the 40% bracket….simple fact is that the majority won’t be.

As to the last question, we can all see a myriad of places where money is wasted, but for the short answer, see https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/brief-guides-and...

Join your local Parish Council if you fancy having an impact, or even to make suggestions.
Sure, you may find some lunatic running things, but you might also find a lot of folk interested in their local area, in many cases donating their time for free to keep things going.

[ferret50]

The Leaper said:

markymarkthree said:

ferret50 said:

markymarkthree said:

ferret50 said:

So I stand by my original statement that if State Pension rises above £12570 next April, Ikea Starmer will be the first PM to tax basic rate pensioners.

Well you will be pleased to know that there is no chance of that happening.

Well, perhaps not April 25, but if personal allowances are not raised then it is certain for April 26.

And remember, Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask.......

Nah, i cant see the gov pension going up nearly £2000 in 2 years. April 2027 is a poss.

The personal tax allowance is £12570. The maximum BASIC State pension is £11502.40 and could be more with additions. So the increase is not £2000 but more like £1000.

R.

Exactly!

Once income rises above the threashold point you lose the same amount off the Savings Interest allowance, thus penalising the poorest amongst us, this is surely, or even shirly, the wrong way for a Labour gubberment to increase fiscal drag....

This is why I have arranged our finances to take advantage of this allowance, I am unable to use anything more that the basic £1000 myself because my ex RAF pension is taxed at source and eliminates me from the Savings Interst Allowance.

[OoopsVoss]

Puzzles said:

It doesn’t motivate people to work harder that’s for sure. If you want growth..

If you want growth, Labour doesn't have to do anything right now; except take its time. France is doing wonders for the UKs investment potential, merci beaucoup!

France has just managed to park itself in a political position not unlike the UK from 2016-2024, with a considerably worse fiscal backdrop. Starmer finds himself in a relatively favourable position with likes to (external) investment - especially as firms like stable government. Nothing that Labour have actually said (bar the VAT on school fees) - looks like an economics kamikaze move especially in the first 100 days. Its possible its all been bullsh*t, but its quite unlikely given the tools at their disposal.

And France is a case in point when it comes to how tax raids or super taxes (75% . EUR1m) go wrong and blow up in your face - Macron had to dump that policy after it caused mega youth unemployment.

Nearly everything posted is pre-Covid understanding of Labour and debt loads, plus weirdly a lot of the comments re fiscal drag apply to BOTH Labour and Conservatives.

Everything observed and smart (even for Starmer and Co) points to slowly, slowly catchy monkey (we can't even do the house building given skills / labour gaps).

Maintaining a cast iron image of respectability is key to Labour unlocking cash for stuff. There is a 20bn p/a windfall on recalibrating Bank of England losses for QE, as long as the market doesn't think they've gone Truss mental and challenged BoE independence.

Of course they are politicians so trust should only ever extend so far, but the Conservatives have just done 14 years of scorched earth (and I've been a life long tory voter) - it really is unlikely to be as bad as what is posted here (and especially if you look broader than your own pocket).

[Tom8]

okgo said:

LivLL said:

Don't forget when you spend some of that 50% left, that is also taxed too.

One wonders just where all this money goes....

And those crying out for me to pay more almost always contribute fk all. It drives me mad.

I think the UK is a bit st anyway, could see us moving elsewhere if it gets too silly.

I always think it is like a ghastly child at Christmas who is given a present then complains it isn't good enough. They moan about "greed" (people who work hard to earn well) and then demand more of the money those "greedy" people have worked their arses off for.

We are investigating emigrating, taking everything with us.

[okgo]

Tom8 said:

I always think it is like a ghastly child at Christmas who is given a present then complains it isn't good enough. They moan about "greed" (people who work hard to earn well) and then demand more of the money those "greedy" people have worked their arses off for.

We are investigating emigrating, taking everything with us.

Don’t blame you. This summer too is really driving me to think more seriously about it. More difficult with a kid mind you.

[Tom8]

okgo said:

Tom8 said:

I always think it is like a ghastly child at Christmas who is given a present then complains it isn't good enough. They moan about "greed" (people who work hard to earn well) and then demand more of the money those "greedy" people have worked their arses off for.

We are investigating emigrating, taking everything with us.

Don’t blame you. This summer too is really driving me to think more seriously about it. More difficult with a kid mind you.

Same but I think young enough to take the jump now.

[Michael_B]

Tom8 said:

Same but I think young enough to take the jump now.

My kids were 9 and 7 when we moved from the UK in 1999. We threw them into the local primary school, they learnt French, and they did fine; both finished state grammar school with top grades, and went on to under/postgrad degrees here in Geneva and in Lausanne/London.

I would highly recommend avoiding international anglophone schools if at all possible; not only the expense, but the risk is that the children never really integrate into local life. Although if you decide to work for Nestlé in Nairobi, or for the National Bank of Nicaragua, the decision might be a bit more complicated

[NRS]

Tom8 said:

okgo said:

LivLL said:

Don't forget when you spend some of that 50% left, that is also taxed too.

One wonders just where all this money goes....

And those crying out for me to pay more almost always contribute fk all. It drives me mad.

I think the UK is a bit st anyway, could see us moving elsewhere if it gets too silly.

I always think it is like a ghastly child at Christmas who is given a present then complains it isn't good enough. They moan about "greed" (people who work hard to earn well) and then demand more of the money those "greedy" people have worked their arses off for.

We are investigating emigrating, taking everything with us.

I find a lot of people see what they want to. I've been accused many times on PH of being that sort of person, when in reality I'm paying more tax than a lot of the people making the comments. As I've said before one of the worst things about the UK is everyone wants someone else to pay, or blames them for not paying (rich accuse the poor lazy people of being jealous, the poor accuse the rich people of paying no tax). The UK is still a lot lower tax than most other countries with similar public spending. There's a big demographic bubble to get through which is why we see relatively little these days for our taxes. A lot of it is going into the healthcare of old people or their nursing homes for example. Just look at the cost of those per week, and how many people are in them and the time they are in them compared to the past. Same for pensions. And bailing out the different crashes - piles loads of debt onto the country, resulting in big repayments there. We've ended up bailing out disasters but cannot tax the profits properly so are heavily skewed there.

[Hustle_]

It serves to remember that this forum is demographically old. Politically it sits somewhere right of Nigel Farage. It is mostly a wealthy, right-wing bubble where aspersions are readily cast about anybody who believes in a social safety net.

It's clearly not representative of the world outside.

It's so convenient for the entire pyramid if the middle class is blaming the poor, or the ethnic minorities isn't it. Meanwhile the 'actual' rich cop none of the flak.

[ooid]

OoopsVoss said:

If you want growth, Labour doesn't have to do anything right now; except take its time. France is doing wonders for the UKs investment potential, merci beaucoup

I agree with international investment priority but just praying on the fall of France is poor and not enough.

Not fan of Dyson but what even he has done is not just basic corporate restructuring. We saw similar big layoffs in tech at States 2 years ago, totally different fat trimming exercise, imho.

[Zaichik]

mikeiow said:

Join your local Parish Council if you fancy having an impact, or even to make suggestions.

as far as I know, I thought that the only statutory duty of a parish council was the provision of allotments - I would like to be in a parish council purely to ensure they wasted no money on anything other than their duties!