Macron calls a national election
Discussion
I guess not many saw that coming!
Heavily beaten by the Far Right in the European elections, is this a massive gamble that the French electorate will come to their senses when confronted with the notion of Le Pen running parliament?
If so, I've a horrible feeling it may be too late to call the voters' bluff.
Heavily beaten by the Far Right in the European elections, is this a massive gamble that the French electorate will come to their senses when confronted with the notion of Le Pen running parliament?
If so, I've a horrible feeling it may be too late to call the voters' bluff.
105.4 said:
The biggest surprise to me in all of this is that Marie le Pen is ’far-right’
Are you aware of her history?She's a senior member of France's far right royalty who took an undisputedly Far Right party and dressed it up in nationalist/populist clothes to make it look respectable enough to get people to vote for it.
The RN's 22 point plan for France is absolutely textbook. Promise the people what they want to hear, keep just the right amount of blaming Islam, make lots of completely unfunded spending promises, drop Frexit from the list because it's not popular, but then issue a manifesto which is undeliverable whilst remaining members of the EU. It plays very well to the psyche of many post-colonial French voters.
If they win the election, be under no illusions as to what the people of France will be electing.
hidetheelephants said:
leef44 said:
isaldiri said:
ambuletz said:
As someone who doesn't really follow politics can someone explain why his actions are a big deal? (in like 2 sentences).
There is quite a lot of concern that the 'wrong' people might get voted in and Macron should never have given 'the people' the chance to make that wrong choice....Ridgemont said:
Kermit power said:
105.4 said:
The biggest surprise to me in all of this is that Marie le Pen is ’far-right’
Are you aware of her history?She's a senior member of France's far right royalty who took an undisputedly Far Right party and dressed it up in nationalist/populist clothes to make it look respectable enough to get people to vote for it.
The RN's 22 point plan for France is absolutely textbook. Promise the people what they want to hear, keep just the right amount of blaming Islam, make lots of completely unfunded spending promises, drop Frexit from the list because it's not popular, but then issue a manifesto which is undeliverable whilst remaining members of the EU. It plays very well to the psyche of many post-colonial French voters.
If they win the election, be under no illusions as to what the people of France will be electing.
Their manifesto doesn't look a million miles further to the extreme than Reform UK's, but look at how they've arrived there.
As far as I'm aware, there is no suggestion that Farage has ever been a member of a Far Right party. I could easily believe that his personal private views are probably somewhat more centrist, but he's nothing if not a showman, and projecting populism is proving a good way of winning support.
Marine Le Pen, on the other hand? She has pulled the public image of her party (and herself) dramatically back from the extreme thanks to the populist agenda, but I really don't believe that her private views have changed one bit. I may be wrong, but to me she feels like the stereotypical fine, upstanding billionaire businessman revealed part way into the film to be the newest Bond villain intent on world domination.
hidetheelephants said:
Kermit power said:
Read their 22 point mission statement and then see if you can figure out how you'd implement it without leaving the EU.
That's a given, but it would take at least one term in office to boil the frog and persuade the populace that they're "very sorry but in order to deliver the desired change we need Frexit". Until then it's a "secret".Gecko1978 said:
ukwill said:
Will be interesting to see how the predominantly London-centric Pro-Remain #FBPE Twitter echo chamber handle their beloved Europe turning into a seething mass of "bigoted, racist Gammons".
No one replied to this yet. It's a solid point seems to me democracy is a double edged sword tell people you want to empower then, then get results you don't like Brexit, Far right etc.If an extreme populist party is racking up 10-20% of the vote, then they should be getting 10-20% of the MPs, and it's up to the more moderate parties to not only promise but also implement alternative strategies that turn voters back away from the extremes. If they fail to do that and the extreme parties keep increasing their vote share, then there comes a time at which they get to have their go in the hotseat. To my mind, few things are more undemocratic than mainstream parties refusing to even attempt to cooperate with extreme parties because they don't like their politics.
The double-edged sword in that setup for the extreme parties is that the time comes where they do have to deliver or get voted out. To me, the worst thing about FPTP is that it deprived us of that. In an alternate reality, had we had PR in 2015, then we would at least have had 13 months of seeing how UKIP performed in a coalition with the Conservatives before the Brexit referendum. We'll never know whether that would have made a difference to the outcome of the referendum, but given what happened to the LibDems after being held to account for their actual actions rather than just their words in the previous coalition, I think we should at least have been given the chance to find out, rather than have UKIP effectively push through the biggest political change in generations without ever being held accountable for their actions.
Oliver Hardy said:
It doesn't I am an idiot, linked the wrong video.
Take 2!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZwmmIBBojA&ab...
To be honest, if it comes down to comparing a video without commentary from the Express Tribune in Pakistan with the complete lack of any reporting of riots on the websites of either Le Monde or Le Figaro, I'd have to say I'm not 100% certain that this happened! Take 2!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZwmmIBBojA&ab...
Vasco said:
It's always interesting when people raise the issue of Brexit over and over again.
For the ordinary guy in the street I never hear any regret about the decision that was made. In many parts of the UK it was a foregone conclusion that European laws weren't going to work here. For some businesses it was a nightmare but, even so, I also don't recall anybody suggesting that the vote was blatantly left or right.
How often do you actually talk politics with "the ordinary guy in the street" though? For the ordinary guy in the street I never hear any regret about the decision that was made. In many parts of the UK it was a foregone conclusion that European laws weren't going to work here. For some businesses it was a nightmare but, even so, I also don't recall anybody suggesting that the vote was blatantly left or right.
Vanden Saab said:
Oliver Hardy said:
Kermit power said:
Oliver Hardy said:
It doesn't I am an idiot, linked the wrong video.
Take 2!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZwmmIBBojA&ab...
To be honest, if it comes down to comparing a video without commentary from the Express Tribune in Pakistan with the complete lack of any reporting of riots on the websites of either Le Monde or Le Figaro, I'd have to say I'm not 100% certain that this happened! Take 2!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZwmmIBBojA&ab...
There were definitely protests over Le pen's victory, not really reported and so maybe some disruption did happen?
But protests by the certain sectors don't get so much reporting as does other types of disruption.
I linked on here a skirmish where pro Iranian activists attacked some opponents, this was in London, it was hardly reported even though it left one guy paralysed, yet hardly any reporting, the police apparently didn't even take statements and PH mods deleted the post as they have regarding the policing of protests in London
Happy now?
I've just become much more cynical in recent years after seeing so many things fact-checked with results like "the video in this story purporting to show looting during ongoing civil unrest in Tanzania in which £45m of goods were stolen or damaged was actually taken 7 years ago after the Haribo ran out at a 6yr old's birthday party in Nuneaton. The damage caused was closer to £90m." that I tend to automatically assume something to be untrue unless I see it simultaneously validated by multiple trustworthy sources!
Murph7355 said:
Kermit power said:
Vasco said:
It's always interesting when people raise the issue of Brexit over and over again.
For the ordinary guy in the street I never hear any regret about the decision that was made. In many parts of the UK it was a foregone conclusion that European laws weren't going to work here. For some businesses it was a nightmare but, even so, I also don't recall anybody suggesting that the vote was blatantly left or right.
How often do you actually talk politics with "the ordinary guy in the street" though? For the ordinary guy in the street I never hear any regret about the decision that was made. In many parts of the UK it was a foregone conclusion that European laws weren't going to work here. For some businesses it was a nightmare but, even so, I also don't recall anybody suggesting that the vote was blatantly left or right.
I only know four people who've actually admitted to voting Brexit. One has admitted she didn't really understand the ramifications and only voted that way because she didn't like the government. One definitely now regrets it and feels he was sold a lie. One - who I tend to avoid now - still thinks it was a wonderful idea and the last is an arch-hypocrite because he already had an EU passport so suffers very little of the personal downside, but has at least had the guts to say he was wrong.
I'm sure if I lived in a blue collar community in Grimsby or somewhere, my circle of friends would hold rather different views.
768 said:
[b]The Conservatives have had Patel and Braverman talking about it, both tagged as far right.[/) To be fair, I haven't seen Cleverly get the same treatment yet, but he's been less publicly vocal about it so far. Has Cooper actually talked about how they're going to reduce net migration? I know they're going to "smash the gangs", say please to the EU and not do Rwanda, but that sounds pretty empty to me, I'm not surprised she's not getting any flack when she's just wishing it down rather than providing anything concrete to attack.
This would be the same Braverman who thinks Churchill's fight them on the beaches speech would've been better if it had been referring to refugees, and talks about her most fervent dream being copies of the Telegraph showing deportation planes taking off for Rwanda on the front page - presumably because she's worn out her copy of Fifty Shades or whatever else she used to use for the same purpose - and you're surprised that some people might feel she's a smidgeon right of centre?Murph7355 said:
Kermit power said:
Most people tend to only do things in their circle of friends.
I only know four people who've actually admitted to voting Brexit. One has admitted she didn't really understand the ramifications and only voted that way because she didn't like the government. One definitely now regrets it and feels he was sold a lie. One - who I tend to avoid now - still thinks it was a wonderful idea and the last is an arch-hypocrite because he already had an EU passport so suffers very little of the personal downside, but has at least had the guts to say he was wrong.
I'm sure if I lived in a blue collar community in Grimsby or somewhere, my circle of friends would hold rather different views.
I can safely say that in a variety of circles I mix in, the topic of Brexit has probably been mentioned no more than half a dozen times, and most of those back in 2016.I only know four people who've actually admitted to voting Brexit. One has admitted she didn't really understand the ramifications and only voted that way because she didn't like the government. One definitely now regrets it and feels he was sold a lie. One - who I tend to avoid now - still thinks it was a wonderful idea and the last is an arch-hypocrite because he already had an EU passport so suffers very little of the personal downside, but has at least had the guts to say he was wrong.
I'm sure if I lived in a blue collar community in Grimsby or somewhere, my circle of friends would hold rather different views.
Blue collar towns, white collar, work....
Let alone people "admitting" and "regretting".
Interesting to see Jordan Bardella over the channel saying that the Rallye Nationale won't attempt to govern unless they have an absolute majority.
Given that they're currently the front runners on around 35%, chances are they're not going to make it to 50%, but equally there's little chance of anyone else overtaking them.
I guess that's one way for a populist to try and get ahead of the curve to avoid the risk of actually having to step up and prove they're not talking absolute b
ks!
Given that they're currently the front runners on around 35%, chances are they're not going to make it to 50%, but equally there's little chance of anyone else overtaking them.
I guess that's one way for a populist to try and get ahead of the curve to avoid the risk of actually having to step up and prove they're not talking absolute b
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