Confused by why 'poor' students will not go to university...
Discussion
There's a news article on the BBC about Reading University upping their fees to £9k/year. The president of the union there claims that this will prevent poorer students from attending however.....
I was under the impression that no fees were to be paid back until completion of the course and the student was earning over ~£21k a year? So how does this put the poor off going to university?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-128...
Students have said they are "very concerned" at Reading University's plan to charge the maximum £9,000 yearly fee.
University students' union president Jess Lazarczyk said the fees may put off poorer students.
Vice chancellor Professor Gordon Marshall defended the decision and said the university needs to maintain its "high quality".
He added that the university will offer a support package for poorer students.
Miss Lazarczyk said the students' union understands all universities are "stuck between a rock and a hard place."
"Their fees have got to reflect the quality of teaching," she said, "but at the same time they don't want to be seen as the bargain university."
She added: "The students' union at Reading is very concerned that the £9,000 isn't necessarily going to reflect the quality of the education that students will be getting.
"I do think they should have charged less."
Professor Marshall denied Reading is charging the maximum fee to avoid being seen as a cheaper university.
He said: "It's not about keeping up with the Jones's. High quality higher education needs to be funded.
"The government has withdrawn most of the funds. If you want to maintain the quality you have to replace the funds."
He added outreach schemes at local schools and financial support packages will prevent student numbers from falling at the university.
He said: "People will be admitted here on an ability to learn, not an ability to pay."
I was under the impression that no fees were to be paid back until completion of the course and the student was earning over ~£21k a year? So how does this put the poor off going to university?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-128...
Students have said they are "very concerned" at Reading University's plan to charge the maximum £9,000 yearly fee.
University students' union president Jess Lazarczyk said the fees may put off poorer students.
Vice chancellor Professor Gordon Marshall defended the decision and said the university needs to maintain its "high quality".
He added that the university will offer a support package for poorer students.
Miss Lazarczyk said the students' union understands all universities are "stuck between a rock and a hard place."
"Their fees have got to reflect the quality of teaching," she said, "but at the same time they don't want to be seen as the bargain university."
She added: "The students' union at Reading is very concerned that the £9,000 isn't necessarily going to reflect the quality of the education that students will be getting.
"I do think they should have charged less."
Professor Marshall denied Reading is charging the maximum fee to avoid being seen as a cheaper university.
He said: "It's not about keeping up with the Jones's. High quality higher education needs to be funded.
"The government has withdrawn most of the funds. If you want to maintain the quality you have to replace the funds."
He added outreach schemes at local schools and financial support packages will prevent student numbers from falling at the university.
He said: "People will be admitted here on an ability to learn, not an ability to pay."
Tsippy said:
I was under the impression that no fees were to be paid back until completion of the course and the student was earning over ~£21k a year? So how does this put the poor off going to university?
And even once you cross that threshold, it's something risible like £27 per month....I simply don't get the whole "poor people are screwed by this" argument - the loans are there, yes the figures are larger, but the terms of them are if anything vastly more favourable than before.
My understanding is that indeed loans will be available to cover the extent of the tuition fees.
You are also correct that nothing is paid back till you are earning £21k. ever. It then gets written off after 30 years or something.
£27 a month sounds about right - on a salary of £30k you'd pay back £67 a month having borrowed £27k for a 3 year degree. Compare that to the current system where you pay back £110 a month if you are earning £30k having borrowed £12k originally.
What I don't understand is that I thought universities who charge above £6k had to offer alternative forms of income or bursaries for students... doesn't seem to be any mention of this tho.
As far as I see it there is no difference in affordability for anyone going to uni than now.
Unless.. they are only providing loans for fees. Currently (i think - i might be a couple of years out of date!) you can get a student loan and a tuition fee loan.
You are also correct that nothing is paid back till you are earning £21k. ever. It then gets written off after 30 years or something.
£27 a month sounds about right - on a salary of £30k you'd pay back £67 a month having borrowed £27k for a 3 year degree. Compare that to the current system where you pay back £110 a month if you are earning £30k having borrowed £12k originally.
What I don't understand is that I thought universities who charge above £6k had to offer alternative forms of income or bursaries for students... doesn't seem to be any mention of this tho.
As far as I see it there is no difference in affordability for anyone going to uni than now.
Unless.. they are only providing loans for fees. Currently (i think - i might be a couple of years out of date!) you can get a student loan and a tuition fee loan.
RedLeicester said:
I simply don't get the whole "poor people are screwed by this" argument
I have to say I think the Government have done a pretty crap job at explaining it properly.Sure, the information is there, but with the amount of misinformation that seems to be out there, even on the mainstream media, I'm surprised they haven't made more of an effort to set people straight.
MoleVision said:
£27 a month sounds about right - on a salary of £30k you'd pay back £67 a month having borrowed £27k for a 3 year degree. Compare that to the current system where you pay back £110 a month if you are earning £30k having borrowed £12k originally.
Do you know what the total amounts paid back would be? 
HowMuchLonger said:
I can understand Oxford/Imperial/Cambridge charging the full 9K, but are Reading really high enough calibre to warrant this?
If they can charge it they will. It doesn't matter if they aren't a top university, there are enough people wanting to study that there is effectively no competition due to supply/demand. HowMuchLonger said:
I can understand Oxford/Imperial/Cambridge charging the full 9K, but are Reading really high enough calibre to warrant this?
Liverpool Poly (sorry JMU) is going to be charging the full £9K too!I suppose the "poorer" students are worried about coming out saddled with, what is to them, unimaginable level of debt. Not just the fees, but their accommodation and living expenses too.
Many will end up in relatively low paid jobs too - many of the younger people in my wife's civil service office are doing admin work on £18K. It's daft, but when you get to the stage where most people have a degree then that's bound to happen. But teacher, young engineers etc etc, don't earn all that much.
tank slapper said:
If they can charge it they will. It doesn't matter if they aren't a top university, there are enough people wanting to study that there is effectively no competition due to supply/demand.
And what does it say of the university that goes for a cheaper rate? "We're s
t, but hey, you get what you pay for"?xr287 said:
Tbh I think if the tards can't work this out and realise the cost means nothing till you're earning then theres a bloody good reason they are poor in the first place and they probably shouldn't be going to uni anyway.
I think this sums things up nicely. Although I regret calling my aunty a 'tard to her face when she was up in arms about the poor students. 
Norbury90 said:
I'm not sure if this is correct, but I think that the loans are barely enough to cover tuition and accomodation, thus leaving nothing for actual living. Students going to uni then have to find a job as soon as they arrive, and there are precious few going around.
..or their parents pay. Even with the old fees system we know people whose kids didn't go because they felt they couldn't afford it. Some friends of ours just sent their eldest daughter to uni and are really struggling, and they have another girl following on.Tsippy said:
I was under the impression that no fees were to be paid back until completion of the course and the student was earning over ~£21k a year? So how does this put the poor off going to university?
Because they will also have other debts to service and that makes it more difficult for them in the long term, having less money from bank of mum and dad to rely upon for example when the time comes to purchase a car/house upon graduation.Deva Link said:
Liverpool Poly (sorry JMU) is going to be charging the full £9K too!
I suppose the "poorer" students are worried about coming out saddled with, what is to them, unimaginable level of debt. Not just the fees, but their accommodation and living expenses too.
Many will end up in relatively low paid jobs too - many of the younger people in my wife's civil service office are doing admin work on £18K. It's daft, but when you get to the stage where most people have a degree then that's bound to happen. But teacher, young engineers etc etc, don't earn all that much.
I suppose the "poorer" students are worried about coming out saddled with, what is to them, unimaginable level of debt. Not just the fees, but their accommodation and living expenses too.
Many will end up in relatively low paid jobs too - many of the younger people in my wife's civil service office are doing admin work on £18K. It's daft, but when you get to the stage where most people have a degree then that's bound to happen. But teacher, young engineers etc etc, don't earn all that much.
The arguments are a) they're put off by the unimaginable amounts of debt (£20,000 when your parents only earn £16,000 will seem like an enormous amount, regardless of how the system works) they would come out with, and b) they can't see themselves earning £21,000, which is partly down to actual prospects and partly due to lack of ambition and confidence - the same issue that prevents many more than capable poor children even considering university ("university isn't for people like us").Then you have the parents who misunderstand how the student loan system works and discourage their children from applying.Those are the arguments anyway. How big the fees and costs barrier is compared to others (poor careers advice, poor schools, poor parenting and so on) is another question entirely.
BTW Oxford estimate the cost of their degrees at £16,000 (the majority of which they cover out of their endowments), the overall average funding is about £7,500 (tuition fee + teaching grant). Within these figures there are huge differences between arts and science subjects. The former are pretty cheap to run for the university, just a couple of hours of lectures a week, some handouts and a library, while latter often require 9-5 teaching, large laboratories, equipment, technicians and so on. Effectively universities need all those arts undergraduates to subsidise the science and engineering graduates in a system of tuition fee/teaching grant caps.
xr287 said:
Tbh I think if the tards can't work this out and realise the cost means nothing till you're earning then theres a bloody good reason they are poor in the first place and they probably shouldn't be going to uni anyway.
+1And if you don't have a basic grasp of politics/economics/taxes etc, you shouldn't vote. In fact if you don't contribute to the government you should not be able to vote. It should be compulsory for every 'means test' that is introduced, there should be a stupidity test to do something else.
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