Stopping the country smoking
Discussion
I'm a smoker, I started when I was 11 and am 28 now. I'm not proud of it, it doesn't make me feel 'big and 'ard' anymore like it did when I was 15, I'm just addicted to the horrible things and haven't found the willpower to drop them yet. I have absolutely no problem with other smokers, likewise absolutely no issue's with non-smokers, but what I have got a problem with is constantly being told that 'the government thinks we should stop people doing it, and they are going to do X, Y or Z to stop it, which will work'. No. No it won't.
The latest one is that the cigarette manufacturers are going to make brandless, colourless (white isn't a colour in my eyes!!) and nameless cigarettes and the newsagents/shops/supermarkets where they are sold will not keep them on display. What it that going to do?! It is simply going to mean that I/you/teenagers/those buying fags for teenagers outside of the Co-op will simply have to go in and ASK for a packet of them. God forbid. We'd better all give up now hadn't we.
I absolutely agree that kids shouldn't be 'encouraged' to smoke, that is unquestionable, and I do agree that it would be better if less adults (myself included) smoked, but how could this be done?
The government and their myriad advisors have reached terminal velocity with their ideas on it, clearly, and PH usually comes up with some pretty cracking ideas for most other things, so how would you stop or discourage the country and it's populous from a) starting to smoke to begin with and b) smoking for those that are already hooked?
The latest one is that the cigarette manufacturers are going to make brandless, colourless (white isn't a colour in my eyes!!) and nameless cigarettes and the newsagents/shops/supermarkets where they are sold will not keep them on display. What it that going to do?! It is simply going to mean that I/you/teenagers/those buying fags for teenagers outside of the Co-op will simply have to go in and ASK for a packet of them. God forbid. We'd better all give up now hadn't we.
I absolutely agree that kids shouldn't be 'encouraged' to smoke, that is unquestionable, and I do agree that it would be better if less adults (myself included) smoked, but how could this be done?
The government and their myriad advisors have reached terminal velocity with their ideas on it, clearly, and PH usually comes up with some pretty cracking ideas for most other things, so how would you stop or discourage the country and it's populous from a) starting to smoke to begin with and b) smoking for those that are already hooked?
I'd assumed the new rules were aimed at making it less likely that today's 15 year-olds will start, rather than getting existing smokers to stop.
I suppose it's difficult to deal with sigh a highly addictive drug which has such a strong hold on society already. I have no objection to smokers as long as they don't do it near me (which they generally don't, since it was banned in pubs) or drop fag ends on the ground (which is no different to any other form of littering to my mind).
I suppose it's difficult to deal with sigh a highly addictive drug which has such a strong hold on society already. I have no objection to smokers as long as they don't do it near me (which they generally don't, since it was banned in pubs) or drop fag ends on the ground (which is no different to any other form of littering to my mind).
To Start, I really hate Smoking. I think it stinks and is a waste of money.
However I disagree big time with the emphasise the government etc put on stopping everybody smoking. if people smoke then no problem, I don't see the need to try to separate them from society.
However could all the smokers please stop huddling around doorways just to have a fag.
I have seen pubs where somebody will open the door, stand in the doorway to get the whole pub cold to have their fag, similarly at hospital main entrances a big gaggle around the door, so to get through you end up stinking of the damn things. It is your habit / past time don't inflict it on others.
However I disagree big time with the emphasise the government etc put on stopping everybody smoking. if people smoke then no problem, I don't see the need to try to separate them from society.
However could all the smokers please stop huddling around doorways just to have a fag.
I have seen pubs where somebody will open the door, stand in the doorway to get the whole pub cold to have their fag, similarly at hospital main entrances a big gaggle around the door, so to get through you end up stinking of the damn things. It is your habit / past time don't inflict it on others.
tim2100 said:
To Start, I really hate Smoking. I think it stinks and is a waste of money.
However I disagree big time with the emphasise the government etc put on stopping everybody smoking. if people smoke then no problem, I don't see the need to try to separate them from society.
However could all the smokers please stop huddling around doorways just to have a fag.
I have seen pubs where somebody will open the door, stand in the doorway to get the whole pub cold to have their fag, similarly at hospital main entrances a big gaggle around the door, so to get through you end up stinking of the damn things. It is your habit / past time don't inflict it on others.
I thought that they had to stand about 5m away from the entrance to have a smoke?However I disagree big time with the emphasise the government etc put on stopping everybody smoking. if people smoke then no problem, I don't see the need to try to separate them from society.
However could all the smokers please stop huddling around doorways just to have a fag.
I have seen pubs where somebody will open the door, stand in the doorway to get the whole pub cold to have their fag, similarly at hospital main entrances a big gaggle around the door, so to get through you end up stinking of the damn things. It is your habit / past time don't inflict it on others.
tim2100 said:
Tsippy said:
I thought that they had to stand about 5m away from the entrance to have a smoke?
They may well should do, but I have never seen anybody even attempt to move smokers back.
te from Labour, now the Cons are going down the same road. Frankly, I wish they'd all get to fSmokers pay a lot of tax £7bill.
Also they do not cost the govt much because they die early and save pension and health care spending.
9 Jun 2009 ... Smoking costs the NHS more than £5 billion a year (bbc)
6 Oct 2008 ... Treating smokers costs the NHS in England £2.7bn a year(the independant)
http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-researc...
They way that i see it is just like car users you pay more for your own luxury/dependence either way the best way to stop the country from smoking is to stop makingselling cigarettes in the country.
No sales = No tax = No smoking.
Also they do not cost the govt much because they die early and save pension and health care spending.
9 Jun 2009 ... Smoking costs the NHS more than £5 billion a year (bbc)
6 Oct 2008 ... Treating smokers costs the NHS in England £2.7bn a year(the independant)
http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-researc...
They way that i see it is just like car users you pay more for your own luxury/dependence either way the best way to stop the country from smoking is to stop makingselling cigarettes in the country.
No sales = No tax = No smoking.
Smokers cost the NHS £2B a year. However they produce £11B a year in duty etc. EDIT< the bloke above found exact figures, i knew it was something like that.
Im sick of people telling us what we can and cant do, just because its bad for you. In my eyes is peoples choice to do something stupid.
I dont smoke, im just irritated by the whole banning everything affiar from out overlords who obviously know better! Pah!
Anyway, how was i stop them.
Just ban it completely. Make them illegal to be sold full stop. Not simple, but it would stop it.
Im sick of people telling us what we can and cant do, just because its bad for you. In my eyes is peoples choice to do something stupid.
I dont smoke, im just irritated by the whole banning everything affiar from out overlords who obviously know better! Pah!
Anyway, how was i stop them.
Just ban it completely. Make them illegal to be sold full stop. Not simple, but it would stop it.
cal72 said:
Smokers pay a lot of tax £7bill.
Also they do not cost the govt much because they die early and save pension and health care spending.
9 Jun 2009 ... Smoking costs the NHS more than £5 billion a year (bbc)
6 Oct 2008 ... Treating smokers costs the NHS in England £2.7bn a year(the independant)
http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-researc...
They way that i see it is just like car users you pay more for your own luxury/dependence either way the best way to stop the country from smoking is to stop makingselling cigarettes in the country.
No sales = No tax = No smoking.
When anyone uses this argument they seem to forget that if smokers didn't spend their money on fags they would spend it on something else that also attracts tax, so the whole £7bn revenue would not be lost to the Exchequer.Also they do not cost the govt much because they die early and save pension and health care spending.
9 Jun 2009 ... Smoking costs the NHS more than £5 billion a year (bbc)
6 Oct 2008 ... Treating smokers costs the NHS in England £2.7bn a year(the independant)
http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-researc...
They way that i see it is just like car users you pay more for your own luxury/dependence either way the best way to stop the country from smoking is to stop makingselling cigarettes in the country.
No sales = No tax = No smoking.
Certainly tobacco is heavily taxed but what if smokers instead spent the money on more alcohol instead (also heavily taxed) or on more petrol/diesel (v v heavily taxed!)?
Even if they spent all the cash they would have spent on fags just on ordinary consumables the tax take would still be 20%, so some proportion of the £7bn raised by tobacco taxes would still be raised.
Would the £7bn tax take fall to more or less than the £5bn cost to the NHS? Who knows?
But, if we're looking at the issue purely from the point of economics then what about the costs to employers of sickness by smoking employees?
Obviously I'm just quoting the figs from the poster above - I don't know how accurate they are - but focussing just on the current level of tax revenue from tobacco Vs the cost to NHS is very simplistic.
Cotty said:
That worked for canabis didn't it
It would have if the punishment for dealing were stronger.Unfortunately the punishment rarely fits the crime nowadays, you have people offending 10 times over and still not getting anything more than a few hours community service.
Banning the sale of cigs would mean having to introduce tough sentences for anyone caught dealing, but since that will never happen you can forget it.
As an ex-smoker I believe people should be able to do as they please. The problem is doing as you please when you're 15 isn't always best in the long run. I doubt there are many smokers that can honestly say they are glad they started, but as a teenager it probably seemed great.
So how do you stop kids from starting in the first place?
Cotty said:
tim2100 said:
However could all the smokers please stop huddling around doorways just to have a fag.
I thought the govenment were bad, telling us we can't smoke inside. Now you telling us where we can and can't smoke outside.
Please could you guys move away from the entrance. I didn't dictate where you can & can't smoke.
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