Sarkozy on multiculturalism
Discussion
Dave, Merkel and now Sarkozy. This all shows just how far the centre-right is ahead on this issue in comparison to their counterparts on the left.
Multiculturalism has failed, says French president
Multiculturalism has failed, says French president
AFP said:
PARIS — French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared Thursday that multiculturalism had failed, joining a growing number of world leaders or ex-leaders who have condemned it.
"My answer is clearly yes, it is a failure," he said in a television interview when asked about the policy which advocates that host societies welcome and foster distinct cultural and religious immigrant groups.
"Of course we must all respect differences, but we do not want... a society where communities coexist side by side.
"If you come to France, you accept to melt into a single community, which is the national community, and if you do not want to accept that, you cannot be welcome in France," the right-wing president said.
"The French national community cannot accept a change in its lifestyle, equality between men and women... freedom for little girls to go to school," he said.
"We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him," Sarkozy said in the TFI channel show.
British Prime Minister David Cameron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Australia's ex-prime minister John Howard and Spanish ex-premier Jose Maria Aznar have also recently said multicultural policies have not successfully integrated immigrants.
Merkel in October said efforts towards multiculturalism in Germany had "failed, totally."
The comment followed weeks of anguished debate sparked by the huge popularity of a book by a central banker saying that immigrants, in particular Muslims, were making Germany "more stupid."
Britain's Cameron last week pronounced his country's long-standing policy of multiculturalism a failure, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism.
He urged a "more active, muscular liberalism" where equal rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech and democracy are actively promoted to create a stronger national identity.
The prime minister, who took power in May 2010, argued that "under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and the mainstream".
He said this had resulted in a lack of national identity in Britain which had made some young Muslims turn to extremist ideology.
Sarkozy said in his television interview Thursday that "our Muslim compatriots must be able to practise their religion, as any citizen can," but he noted "we in France do not want people to pray in an ostentatious way in the street."
French far-right leader Marine Le Pen late last year came under fire for comparing Muslims praying in the streets outside overcrowded mosques in France to the Nazi occupation.
Marine Le Pen said there were "ten to fifteen" places in France where Muslims worshipped in the streets outside mosques when these were full.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jR1m5BpdMrDES3u4Cso1v3FwQRUg?docId=CNG.6b096ac0cdcfce7a0f599fbbb1c85c27.911"My answer is clearly yes, it is a failure," he said in a television interview when asked about the policy which advocates that host societies welcome and foster distinct cultural and religious immigrant groups.
"Of course we must all respect differences, but we do not want... a society where communities coexist side by side.
"If you come to France, you accept to melt into a single community, which is the national community, and if you do not want to accept that, you cannot be welcome in France," the right-wing president said.
"The French national community cannot accept a change in its lifestyle, equality between men and women... freedom for little girls to go to school," he said.
"We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him," Sarkozy said in the TFI channel show.
British Prime Minister David Cameron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Australia's ex-prime minister John Howard and Spanish ex-premier Jose Maria Aznar have also recently said multicultural policies have not successfully integrated immigrants.
Merkel in October said efforts towards multiculturalism in Germany had "failed, totally."
The comment followed weeks of anguished debate sparked by the huge popularity of a book by a central banker saying that immigrants, in particular Muslims, were making Germany "more stupid."
Britain's Cameron last week pronounced his country's long-standing policy of multiculturalism a failure, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism.
He urged a "more active, muscular liberalism" where equal rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech and democracy are actively promoted to create a stronger national identity.
The prime minister, who took power in May 2010, argued that "under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and the mainstream".
He said this had resulted in a lack of national identity in Britain which had made some young Muslims turn to extremist ideology.
Sarkozy said in his television interview Thursday that "our Muslim compatriots must be able to practise their religion, as any citizen can," but he noted "we in France do not want people to pray in an ostentatious way in the street."
French far-right leader Marine Le Pen late last year came under fire for comparing Muslims praying in the streets outside overcrowded mosques in France to the Nazi occupation.
Marine Le Pen said there were "ten to fifteen" places in France where Muslims worshipped in the streets outside mosques when these were full.
Praying outside when mosques are full. Mmmm. I know for a fact that mosques in both Slough and Vienna are also full, for the Friday prayer, but the overflow is contained within the mosque's perimeters. Can't see why that is an issue?
It gets a bit nippy in Winter in Vienna, though, I can inform you.
It gets a bit nippy in Winter in Vienna, though, I can inform you.
DrYazz said:
Praying outside when mosques are full. Mmmm. I know for a fact that mosques in both Slough and Vienna are also full, for the Friday prayer, but the overflow is contained within the mosque's perimeters. Can't see why that is an issue?
It gets a bit nippy in Winter in Vienna, though, I can inform you.
I agree. If its within the Mosque grounds, even if that's outside then no one has a right to tell worshippers where to pray. On a public path/road though and I'd agree with Sarkozy.It gets a bit nippy in Winter in Vienna, though, I can inform you.
DrYazz said:
Praying outside when mosques are full. Mmmm. I know for a fact that mosques in both Slough and Vienna are also full, for the Friday prayer, but the overflow is contained within the mosque's perimeters. Can't see why that is an issue?
Apparently " there were prayers on the public thoroughfare.”Question........did Sarkozy have anything to say on the Brits and Amercians who live (and/ or work) in France, some for many many years, and speak very little French?
Are they not contributory factors to the failure of multiculturalism in his beloved France?
Are they not contributory factors to the failure of multiculturalism in his beloved France?
Edited by DrYazz on Sunday 13th February 11:55
DrYazz said:
Question........did Sarkozy have anything to say on the Brits and Amercians who live (and/ or work) in France, some for many many years, and speak very little French?
Are they not contributory factors to the failure of multiculturalism in his beloved France?
spot on mate!Are they not contributory factors to the failure of multiculturalism in his beloved France?
Edited by DrYazz on Sunday 13th February 11:55
[quote=DrYazz]Question........did Sarkozy have anything to say on the Brits and Amercians who live (and/ or work) in France, some for many many years, and speak very little French?
Are they not contributory factors to the failure of multiculturalism in his beloved France?
Not even nearly the same thing is it ? I'm pretty sure most Muslims talk French / german . It's about a backwards religion or should I just say a religion
Are they not contributory factors to the failure of multiculturalism in his beloved France?
Edited by DrYazz on Sunday 13th February 11:55
[/qoute]Not even nearly the same thing is it ? I'm pretty sure most Muslims talk French / german . It's about a backwards religion or should I just say a religion
He's 100% correct. Well said indeed.
I live in and around what must be the world capital of multiculturalism, NY City. You've got people from literally everywhere all around you. I have neighbors, within 1 block of me, from Ireland, Korea and China. There's Blacks and Whites and Hispanics and Jews and Christians and you name it. And that's on my street, let alone the whole place.
There's areas where ethnicities are concentrated, and there's a Korean supermarket in town and a Columbian restaurant and a Filipino grocery store a town over, etc... But ya know what? Who cares. Over here if the thought of someone trying to impose Sharia law came up someone would get kicked in the teeth so to speak, and rightfully so.
Few things piss me off more than an immigrant expecting our society to change for them. The general attitude here is "Go ahead have your culture but don't expect us to change for you". It seems to work. I think that this whole "let's placate the muslims" attitude I see happening in the UK is revolting. I remember reading about how someone felt Christmas was offensive to them because they were a muslim. So? Move to Saudi Arabia then. I'm Jewish and I'm not offended (But what the heck prompts people to drag a dead pine tree into their house and electrify it? Nuts...)
Within a mile of my house there's 3 temples, a mosque and about 5 wildly different churches and we all get along.
I live in and around what must be the world capital of multiculturalism, NY City. You've got people from literally everywhere all around you. I have neighbors, within 1 block of me, from Ireland, Korea and China. There's Blacks and Whites and Hispanics and Jews and Christians and you name it. And that's on my street, let alone the whole place.
There's areas where ethnicities are concentrated, and there's a Korean supermarket in town and a Columbian restaurant and a Filipino grocery store a town over, etc... But ya know what? Who cares. Over here if the thought of someone trying to impose Sharia law came up someone would get kicked in the teeth so to speak, and rightfully so.
Few things piss me off more than an immigrant expecting our society to change for them. The general attitude here is "Go ahead have your culture but don't expect us to change for you". It seems to work. I think that this whole "let's placate the muslims" attitude I see happening in the UK is revolting. I remember reading about how someone felt Christmas was offensive to them because they were a muslim. So? Move to Saudi Arabia then. I'm Jewish and I'm not offended (But what the heck prompts people to drag a dead pine tree into their house and electrify it? Nuts...)
Within a mile of my house there's 3 temples, a mosque and about 5 wildly different churches and we all get along.
MX7 said:
DrYazz said:
Praying outside when mosques are full. Mmmm. I know for a fact that mosques in both Slough and Vienna are also full, for the Friday prayer, but the overflow is contained within the mosque's perimeters. Can't see why that is an issue?
Apparently " there were prayers on the public thoroughfare.”Muntu said:
I can see why some people could find it a bit tiresome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijRHfx9TcOw
Get it banned then! Would not be too difficult to draft legislation to ban clogging up public thoroughfares.If legislation already exists, then it is the authorities fault for not enforcing it.
DrYazz said:
Muntu said:
I can see why some people could find it a bit tiresome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijRHfx9TcOw
Get it banned then! Would not be too difficult to draft legislation to ban clogging up public thoroughfares.If legislation already exists, then it is the authorities fault for not enforcing it.
Captain Cadillac said:
Within a mile of my house there's 3 temples, a mosque and about 5 wildly different churches and we all get along.
That’s one of the things I like about the US, the very simple belief that it doesn’t matter where you or your family originated from, once you have a US passport you’re American first and foremost.Muntu said:
DrYazz said:
Muntu said:
I can see why some people could find it a bit tiresome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijRHfx9TcOw
Get it banned then! Would not be too difficult to draft legislation to ban clogging up public thoroughfares.If legislation already exists, then it is the authorities fault for not enforcing it.
DrYazz said:
Muntu said:
I can see why some people could find it a bit tiresome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijRHfx9TcOw
Get it banned then! Would not be too difficult to draft legislation to ban clogging up public thoroughfares.If legislation already exists, then it is the authorities fault for not enforcing it.
Muntu said:
DrYazz said:
Muntu said:
I can see why some people could find it a bit tiresome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijRHfx9TcOw
Get it banned then! Would not be too difficult to draft legislation to ban clogging up public thoroughfares.If legislation already exists, then it is the authorities fault for not enforcing it.
Authority should have the conviction to implement measures for the common good.
It is clearly not beneficial to have public streets and roads clogged up in that manner.
There might be some resistance or 'whining' as you elegantly phrased it, but there would also be considerable support for such a move.
Instead of 'whining' on a public forum, get off your backside and get the process rolling. If you feel that strongly about Friday prayers on the street. In a European city. Near you.
DrYazz said:
Instead of 'whining' on a public forum, get off your backside and get the process rolling. If you feel that strongly about Friday prayers on the street. In a European city. Near you.
I am not the one doing the whining 
Thank you for taking the time out to decide what I do with my spare time, but you seem to have misjudged how bothered I am about what a bunch of primitives do in the streets of Paris.
Muntu said:
I am not the one doing the whining
Thank you for taking the time out to decide what I do with my spare time, but you seem to have misjudged how bothered I am about what a bunch of primitives do in the streets of Paris.
Bothered or not, you stil posted a link to a YouTube video, showing the 'primitives in a Paris street' Thank you for taking the time out to decide what I do with my spare time, but you seem to have misjudged how bothered I am about what a bunch of primitives do in the streets of Paris.
Edited by DrYazz on Sunday 13th February 14:05
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