The Pistonhead Party - Politics matters.
Discussion
There are many threads on Pistonheads and it's somewhat of a 'norm' to be seen as a conservative.
Example: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
That means that this topic is hard to generalise to the general public, as let's be honest, there are many groups who are not represented equally on this forum; Labour supporters, climate scientists, women, spongers, compensation chasing assholes and chavs to name a few (OK, well some)
As parties such as the 'EDL' are able to form and gather support without any political knowledge, marketing budgets, or a front man who is 'switched on' or knows how to handle the media, how hard can it be to set up party which is neither a bunch of tax b
ds, nor a bunch of mental racists, nor making 'everything fair'
If you could chose just 5 policies, which may or may not already exist, what would they be?
As with anything, every action has a reaction, so feel free to discuss others suggestions.
1) Introduce a 'points' system, similar to Aus.
2) The benefit system needs to be reviewed. Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only. Disability (and other) allowances can have a similar effect (wheelchair stamps).
3) Tougher stance on immigrant. If you wish to immigrate to the UK, and break the law, you can be exported (regardless of having an adopted kitten).
4) Flat rate tax, if you stop supertaxing everyone (on PH), maybe people might stop moving away.
5) Reward those who actually work. You should NEVER be given the ability to earn more in benefits from not working, than if you were to somehow contribute to the community.
Example: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
That means that this topic is hard to generalise to the general public, as let's be honest, there are many groups who are not represented equally on this forum; Labour supporters, climate scientists, women, spongers, compensation chasing assholes and chavs to name a few (OK, well some)
As parties such as the 'EDL' are able to form and gather support without any political knowledge, marketing budgets, or a front man who is 'switched on' or knows how to handle the media, how hard can it be to set up party which is neither a bunch of tax b
ds, nor a bunch of mental racists, nor making 'everything fair'If you could chose just 5 policies, which may or may not already exist, what would they be?
As with anything, every action has a reaction, so feel free to discuss others suggestions.
1) Introduce a 'points' system, similar to Aus.
2) The benefit system needs to be reviewed. Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only. Disability (and other) allowances can have a similar effect (wheelchair stamps).
3) Tougher stance on immigrant. If you wish to immigrate to the UK, and break the law, you can be exported (regardless of having an adopted kitten).
4) Flat rate tax, if you stop supertaxing everyone (on PH), maybe people might stop moving away.
5) Reward those who actually work. You should NEVER be given the ability to earn more in benefits from not working, than if you were to somehow contribute to the community.
Edited by I Love Lamp on Thursday 3rd February 14:08
I Love Lamp said:
5) Reward those who actually work. You should NEVER be given the ability to earn more in benefits from not working, than if you were to somehow contribute to the community.
This is the thing that annoys me the most tbh. How in any sane world can sitting on your arse get your more money than working?I am not talking about Wide Legs McGee and her 15 sprogs as that is a seperate problem I am talking more about Mr or Mrs Workshy who get to sit at home watching Tele while smoking and drinking while someone else works maybe 2-3 jobs just to get by.
It makes about as much sense as a Wookie living with Ewoks.
PintOfKittens said:
I Love Lamp said:
2) The benefit system needs to be reviewed. Those able to work should be kicked out of housing, told to get a fking job, and left on the streets to starve. Those commiting crimes while "disabled" get a few limbs chopped off.
EFA.king job, and left on the streets to starve. Those commiting crimes while "disabled" get a few limbs chopped off.
Yep, great if there are enough jobs, which there clearly aren't. There'll be less with all of the public sector jobs going soon too.
Apart from the workshy, there are hundreds of thousands who work in s
t jobs rather than sit and claim as they have self-respect. There are also those who actively try to get work, where there are less and less jobs available, so can't actually find them.jshell said:
PintOfKittens said:
I Love Lamp said:
2) The benefit system needs to be reviewed. Those able to work should be kicked out of housing, told to get a fking job, and left on the streets to starve. Those commiting crimes while "disabled" get a few limbs chopped off.
EFA.king job, and left on the streets to starve. Those commiting crimes while "disabled" get a few limbs chopped off.Yep, great if there are enough jobs, which there clearly aren't. There'll be less with all of the public sector jobs going soon too.
Apart from the workshy, there are hundreds of thousands who work in s
t jobs rather than sit and claim as they have self-respect. There are also those who actively try to get work, where there are less and less jobs available, so can't actually find them.my wife, daughter and son will becoming statistics soon too, the typical PH attitude to the unemployed may soon change methinks
The 'Public Sector' has NEVER had a sense of money and cuts have been a long time coming.
Personal examples:
1) Whilst on a training course, I was informed by someone who works in the local council, they have a brand new PC every 2 years. Is this required for his line of work? No.
2) School days. I remember an assembly where the head teacher was informing the children of vandalism to chairs in the 'common room'. These were nasty chairs with a foam lining, supposedly they cost £400 each new. Really? School is allocated a budget, they spend it all so they get the same budget the following year. They're not run like a business AT ALL.
The majority of these large businesses who are downsizing (or moving their business elsewhere) are doing so due to the costs involved in running their businesses in the UK.
Our Government have become tax mental. Higher taxes leads to less spending, more unemployment, more benefits.
Does.Not.Compute.
Personal examples:
1) Whilst on a training course, I was informed by someone who works in the local council, they have a brand new PC every 2 years. Is this required for his line of work? No.
2) School days. I remember an assembly where the head teacher was informing the children of vandalism to chairs in the 'common room'. These were nasty chairs with a foam lining, supposedly they cost £400 each new. Really? School is allocated a budget, they spend it all so they get the same budget the following year. They're not run like a business AT ALL.
The majority of these large businesses who are downsizing (or moving their business elsewhere) are doing so due to the costs involved in running their businesses in the UK.
Our Government have become tax mental. Higher taxes leads to less spending, more unemployment, more benefits.
Does.Not.Compute.
The real Apache said:
jshell said:
PintOfKittens said:
I Love Lamp said:
2) The benefit system needs to be reviewed. Those able to work should be kicked out of housing, told to get a fking job, and left on the streets to starve. Those commiting crimes while "disabled" get a few limbs chopped off.
EFA.king job, and left on the streets to starve. Those commiting crimes while "disabled" get a few limbs chopped off.Yep, great if there are enough jobs, which there clearly aren't. There'll be less with all of the public sector jobs going soon too.
Apart from the workshy, there are hundreds of thousands who work in s
t jobs rather than sit and claim as they have self-respect. There are also those who actively try to get work, where there are less and less jobs available, so can't actually find them.my wife, daughter and son will becoming statistics soon too, the typical PH attitude to the unemployed may soon change methinks
s.My father was a labourer for a lot of his life so never earned a lot of money. He grafted to provide for his family, but I saw him in tears one day as he realised that many in the same area were getting more money than him by simply claiming all sorts of benefits. He was too proud to do the same.
There are simply not enough jobs to go round.
Guam said:
You know I sympathise with your general premise, but if there really arent enough jobs to go araound, what the hell are all the Eastern europeans that are here doing to make a crust.
It seems to me that the two divergent positions (we need the migrants and there arent enough Jobs) are mutually exclusive!! Or is it me and I am missing something?
I think we are guilty of thinking of all unemployed as work-shy. In doing so we tar even the people who desperately want jobs with the same brush.It seems to me that the two divergent positions (we need the migrants and there arent enough Jobs) are mutually exclusive!! Or is it me and I am missing something?
One size does not fit all.
Aviemore is a prime example, where the locals will not take the hotel jobs that the (fit as f
k) European girls have taken. Why? I'm not sure tbh....Of course those hotels couldn't really take a 55 yr old ex-lorry driver for a housemaid job!
jshell said:
I think we are guilty of thinking of all unemployed as work-shy. In doing so we tar even the people who desperately want jobs with the same brush.
One size does not fit all.
Aviemore is a prime example, where the locals will not take the hotel jobs that the (fit as fk) European girls have taken. Why? I'm not sure tbh....
Of course those hotels couldn't really take a 55 yr old ex-lorry driver for a housemaid job!
Just as all on benefits aren't feckless.One size does not fit all.
Aviemore is a prime example, where the locals will not take the hotel jobs that the (fit as f
k) European girls have taken. Why? I'm not sure tbh....Of course those hotels couldn't really take a 55 yr old ex-lorry driver for a housemaid job!
Maybe the hoteliers of Aviemore prefer the Europeans?
Sticks. said:
Just as all on benefits aren't feckless.
Maybe the hoteliers of Aviemore prefer the Europeans?
Or, ultimately, these people can 'earn' more than the 'minimum wage' by sitting on their arse claiming benefits, whilst european immigrants are happy to work for the 'minimum wage' because it's considerably more than they'd earn back home?Maybe the hoteliers of Aviemore prefer the Europeans?
This was touched upon in another thread. Minimum wage was seen as some great Labour achievement, but how can that be when people can choose to not work and claim more in benefits? Either the minimum wage needs to go up, scrapped completely and allow market forces to reflect pay, or (and obviously this is more preferable) benefits needs to be slashed to significantly lower than someone working the 'minimum wage'.
Of course, the other issue now is that we've had so many years of people believing they're entitled to everything and that the £26k a year they're claiming in benefits is somehow a normal 'wage' that they refuse to work for 'minimum wage' because it's 'beneath' them.
Oh dear. Oh dear. Oh dear ......
Take, for example, (2) above. "Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only." Great idea!! Why didn't I think of it? Oh yes, this is why - what happens when they want to pay the rent, or buy a pair of shoes, or pay the bus or train fare or buy the petrol to go for a job interview? Etc etc.
OK, lets try (5) "Flat rate tax." What is it going to be (especially in these days of financial meltdown in the public finances), because you can bet your last half crown that it wont be 20%? I heard on the radio only earlier this week that something like 10% of the working population currently pay higher rate (40%) on some of their income. The government will not wish to see its tax take fall (especially at the moment) so it would have to make up the shortfall by increasing the basic rate. Shall we guess at 25%? A bit of a vote loser, some might think
Immigration. OK, you've only picked up on the lawbreaking aspect, but there are many others around here who subscribe to the "British jobs for British people" argument, and somebody else on this thread asked why hotel domestic staff tend to be Eastern Europeans. It could be that the locals won't work for the money. Does anybody else remember a few years ago when plumbers were earning a bloody fortune because there was a shortage of them? And then a lot of Polish plumbers turned up, undercut the locals and the rates on offer went back to something more realistic. The indigenous plumbers were bleating about this at the time, that "these bloody foreigners came over and pinched our jobs," but all that really happened was the status quo returned. No doubt these same plumbers were not bleating about jobs in the UK textile industry being lost because kids in India would do the same job for fourpence a month - after all, they were getting cheap clothes
I Love Lamp said:
There are many threads on Pistonheads and it's somewhat of a 'norm' to be seen as a conservative.
Example: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
That means that this topic is hard to generalise to the general public, as let's be honest, there are many groups who are not represented equally on this forum; Labour supporters, climate scientists, women, spongers, compensation chasing assholes and chavs to name a few (OK, well some)
As parties such as the 'EDL' are able to form and gather support without any political knowledge, marketing budgets, or a front man who is 'switched on' or knows how to handle the media, how hard can it be to set up party which is neither a bunch of tax bds, nor a bunch of mental racists, nor making 'everything fair'
If you could chose just 5 policies, which may or may not already exist, what would they be?
As with anything, every action has a reaction, so feel free to discuss others suggestions.
1) Introduce a 'points' system, similar to Aus.
2) The benefit system needs to be reviewed. Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only. Disability (and other) allowances can have a similar effect (wheelchair stamps).
3) Tougher stance on immigrant. If you wish to immigrate to the UK, and break the law, you can be exported (regardless of having an adopted kitten).
4) Flat rate tax, if you stop supertaxing everyone (on PH), maybe people might stop moving away.
5) Reward those who actually work. You should NEVER be given the ability to earn more in benefits from not working, than if you were to somehow contribute to the community.
There are certainly a number of keyboard warriors around here with views rather to the right of Vlad the Impaler, but in my experience many of them do not appear to be in the real world. Some of your suggestions suggest you might be included in their number.Example: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
That means that this topic is hard to generalise to the general public, as let's be honest, there are many groups who are not represented equally on this forum; Labour supporters, climate scientists, women, spongers, compensation chasing assholes and chavs to name a few (OK, well some)
As parties such as the 'EDL' are able to form and gather support without any political knowledge, marketing budgets, or a front man who is 'switched on' or knows how to handle the media, how hard can it be to set up party which is neither a bunch of tax b
ds, nor a bunch of mental racists, nor making 'everything fair'If you could chose just 5 policies, which may or may not already exist, what would they be?
As with anything, every action has a reaction, so feel free to discuss others suggestions.
1) Introduce a 'points' system, similar to Aus.
2) The benefit system needs to be reviewed. Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only. Disability (and other) allowances can have a similar effect (wheelchair stamps).
3) Tougher stance on immigrant. If you wish to immigrate to the UK, and break the law, you can be exported (regardless of having an adopted kitten).
4) Flat rate tax, if you stop supertaxing everyone (on PH), maybe people might stop moving away.
5) Reward those who actually work. You should NEVER be given the ability to earn more in benefits from not working, than if you were to somehow contribute to the community.
Edited by I Love Lamp on Thursday 3rd February 14:08
Take, for example, (2) above. "Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only." Great idea!! Why didn't I think of it? Oh yes, this is why - what happens when they want to pay the rent, or buy a pair of shoes, or pay the bus or train fare or buy the petrol to go for a job interview? Etc etc.
OK, lets try (5) "Flat rate tax." What is it going to be (especially in these days of financial meltdown in the public finances), because you can bet your last half crown that it wont be 20%? I heard on the radio only earlier this week that something like 10% of the working population currently pay higher rate (40%) on some of their income. The government will not wish to see its tax take fall (especially at the moment) so it would have to make up the shortfall by increasing the basic rate. Shall we guess at 25%? A bit of a vote loser, some might think
Immigration. OK, you've only picked up on the lawbreaking aspect, but there are many others around here who subscribe to the "British jobs for British people" argument, and somebody else on this thread asked why hotel domestic staff tend to be Eastern Europeans. It could be that the locals won't work for the money. Does anybody else remember a few years ago when plumbers were earning a bloody fortune because there was a shortage of them? And then a lot of Polish plumbers turned up, undercut the locals and the rates on offer went back to something more realistic. The indigenous plumbers were bleating about this at the time, that "these bloody foreigners came over and pinched our jobs," but all that really happened was the status quo returned. No doubt these same plumbers were not bleating about jobs in the UK textile industry being lost because kids in India would do the same job for fourpence a month - after all, they were getting cheap clothes
rs1952 said:
Oh dear. Oh dear. Oh dear ......
Take, for example, (2) above. "Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only." Great idea!! Why didn't I think of it? Oh yes, this is why - what happens when they want to pay the rent, or buy a pair of shoes, or pay the bus or train fare or buy the petrol to go for a job interview? Etc etc.
I guess education is another policy I would address, primarily the reading part. Take, for example, (2) above. "Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only." Great idea!! Why didn't I think of it? Oh yes, this is why - what happens when they want to pay the rent, or buy a pair of shoes, or pay the bus or train fare or buy the petrol to go for a job interview? Etc etc.
What I actually said was:
I Love Lamp said:
The benefit system needs to be reviewed. Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only. Disability (and other) allowances can have a similar effect (wheelchair stamps).
You honestly expect me to address every possible benefit? No, what I am saying is that benefits should cover essentials. Food, clothing, bills. Not cigarettes, alcohol, plasma TVs.rs1952 said:
OK, lets try (5) "Flat rate tax." What is it going to be (especially in these days of financial meltdown in the public finances), because you can bet your last half crown that it wont be 20%? I heard on the radio only earlier this week that something like 10% of the working population currently pay higher rate (40%) on some of their income. The government will not wish to see its tax take fall (especially at the moment) so it would have to make up the shortfall by increasing the basic rate. Shall we guess at 25%? A bit of a vote loser, some might think
.True, I think the figure is actually rather more than that. The problem we have is, you're not taking into account the amount of business which now avoids UK tax. How much tax has the UK missed out on due to businesses moving overseas? Wouldn't surprise me if no-one's counting - vicious circle.
rs1952 said:
Immigration. OK, you've only picked up on the lawbreaking aspect, but there are many others around here who subscribe to the "British jobs for British people" argument, and somebody else on this thread asked why hotel domestic staff tend to be Eastern Europeans. It could be that the locals won't work for the money. Does anybody else remember a few years ago when plumbers were earning a bloody fortune because there was a shortage of them? And then a lot of Polish plumbers turned up, undercut the locals and the rates on offer went back to something more realistic. The indigenous plumbers were bleating about this at the time, that "these bloody foreigners came over and pinched our jobs," but all that really happened was the status quo returned. No doubt these same plumbers were not bleating about jobs in the UK textile industry being lost because kids in India would do the same job for fourpence a month - after all, they were getting cheap clothes
To be honest, if people wish to work their arses off in the UK and stick within the UK laws and adapt/integrate, I don't have a problem with this. How you can enforce the integration is a toughie, largely due to 'freedom of speech' (again, another vicious circle, but support for the UAF/EDL is clearly showing that this is a growing concern, is it not? Even then, have you ever been made redundant? If or when you do, let me know your reaction when they ask how long you've been out of work for, what savings you have, if your partner works and then kindly tell you, you're not entitled to a thing.
Edited by I Love Lamp on Thursday 3rd February 17:40
I Love Lamp said:
rs1952 said:
Oh dear. Oh dear. Oh dear ......
Take, for example, (2) above. "Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only." Great idea!! Why didn't I think of it? Oh yes, this is why - what happens when they want to pay the rent, or buy a pair of shoes, or pay the bus or train fare or buy the petrol to go for a job interview? Etc etc.
I guess education is another policy I would address, Education for example, primarily the reading part. Take, for example, (2) above. "Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only." Great idea!! Why didn't I think of it? Oh yes, this is why - what happens when they want to pay the rent, or buy a pair of shoes, or pay the bus or train fare or buy the petrol to go for a job interview? Etc etc.
What I actually said was:
I Love Lamp said:
The benefit system needs to be reviewed. Those able to work should be paid in food stamps only. Disability (and other) allowances can have a similar effect (wheelchair stamps).
You honestly expect me to address every possible benefit? No, what I am saying is that benefits should cover essentials. Food, clothing, bills. Not cigarettes, alcohol, plasma TVs. I Love Lamp said:
rs1952 said:
OK, lets try (5) "Flat rate tax." What is it going to be (especially in these days of financial meltdown in the public finances), because you can bet your last half crown that it wont be 20%? I heard on the radio only earlier this week that something like 10% of the working population currently pay higher rate (40%) on some of their income. The government will not wish to see its tax take fall (especially at the moment) so it would have to make up the shortfall by increasing the basic rate. Shall we guess at 25%? A bit of a vote loser, some might think
True, I think the figure is actually rather more than that. The problem we have is, you're not taking into account the amount of business which now avoids UK tax. How much tax has the UK missed out on due to businesses moving overseas? Wouldn't surprise me if no-ones counting - vicious circle. But to the majority of us mere mortals, the sums wouldn't add up eg. you pay out £200k to move to the other side of the world and save £10k in tax a year? Not worth the hassle for the majority.I Love Lamp said:
Even then, have you ever been made redundant? If or when you do, let me know your reaction when they ask how long you've been out of work for, what savings you have, if your partner works and then kindly tell you, you're not entitled to a thing.
Made redundant 2004. Started my own business. Best thing that could ever have happened. (And incidentally haven't claimed any state benefits since 1979) Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff