Tory chief Baroness Warsi attacks 'bigotry' against Muslims

[Halb]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religio...

Obviously lots of insight to come from this keen mind in the cabinet.

[greygoose]

What would you imagine a Muslim member of the Cabinet would talk to an audience at the University of Leicester about?

She's hardly saying anything that is too controversial, in fact her view probably reflect many of the views on here, a distrust of Islam in general but any Muslims we actually meet day to day are ok..............

[Victor McDade]

Why is being 'anti-Islamic' or 'islamophobic' as they call it classed as something bad? By definition all athiests in this country are anti-Islamic (As well as being anti all other religions). Is this something they should be ashamed of?

Disliking an ideology is perfectly acceptable imo. Bigotry against Muslims however, is not.

As for Warsi in general, she is a product of gesture politics, a token to show Dave is all inclusive and the that Tory Party has changed! Can't see her lasting long.

[elster]

Victor McDade said:

Why is being 'anti-Islamic' or 'islamophobic' as they call it classed as something bad? By definition all athiests in this country are anti-Islamic (As well as being anti all other religions). Is this something they should be ashamed of?

Disliking an ideology is perfectly acceptable imo. Bigotry against Muslims however, is not.

As for Warsi in general, she is a product of gesture politics, a token to show Dave is all inclusive and the that Tory Party has changed! Can't see her lasting long.

With that definition anyone who is heterosexual is also homophobic.

[Bill]

Victor McDade said:

Why is being 'anti-Islamic' or 'islamophobic' as they call it classed as something bad? By definition all athiests in this country are anti-Islamic (As well as being anti all other religions). Is this something they should be ashamed of?

I'd disagree with pretty much all of this.

Atheism isn't anti-religion by definition, being anti something means you care enough to work against it.

And islamophobia is fear of muslims, rather than being anti, and is an irrational inability to see the wood for the trees (IMO). So all muslims get lumped in with the extremists rather than where they belong, which is with the other religions in the deluded (IMO) but basically harmless group.

As to whether it's something to be ashamed of, no more than any other prejudice IMO. It is divisive though, and there are various groups who play on people's prejudices to encourage those divisions to further their own agendas.

[Rude-boy]

Must say that I saw the headline for this on the BBC News RSS ("Muslim prejudice 'seen as normal'") and my first thought was at last someone has stood up and admitted openly the prejudice against non Muslims.

On reading the article it would appear I was wrong...


ETA:- ...obviously the UK does nothing to try to kerb extremist anti-Islamic views:-


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12231832

Edited by Rude-boy on Thursday 20th January 10:14

[Bill]

Rude-boy said:

ETA:- ...obviously the UK does nothing to try to kerb extremist anti-Islamic views:-


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12231832

FWIW I don't think he should be banned from this country even if he is a religious loon who's only going to stir up tensions, but in their defence the Home Office have stopped various Muslim preachers entering the country.

People like Abu Hamza came here when we felt that having them in the country pissing out was preferable to the other way round. Obviously we now can't get rid of him because the only people willing to take him want to kill him and we're too civilised for that.

[Rude-boy]

Bill said:

Rude-boy said:

ETA:- ...obviously the UK does nothing to try to kerb extremist anti-Islamic views:-


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12231832

FWIW I don't think he should be banned from this country even if he is a religious loon who's only going to stir up tensions, but in their defence the Home Office have stopped various Muslim preachers entering the country.

People like Abu Hamza came here when we felt that having them in the country pissing out was preferable to the other way round. Obviously we now can't get rid of him because the only people willing to take him want to kill him and we're too civilised for that.

The libertarian in my fully agrees with you. So long as they are only words, we should let whoever say whatever.

The problem, I am starting to appreciate more as I get older, is that there are just too many people in the Country (or World for that matter) who lack the mental ability to listen to people and form their own opinions. Rather they just accept that everything they hear that sounds like it fits their outlook on life is true.

[s1962a]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

[Bill]

Rude-boy said:

The libertarian in my fully agrees with you. So long as they are only words, we should let whoever say whatever.

The problem, I am starting to appreciate more as I get older, is that there are just too many people in the Country (or World for that matter) who lack the mental ability to listen to people and form their own opinions. Rather they just accept that everything they hear that sounds like it fits their outlook on life is true.

Absolutely. But in my world people like this would get the press coverage they deserve, ie none.

[anonymous-user]

You tell it how it is sister....

Oh yes, the PH biggots are coming out as well, i'm going to love this... he he

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 20th January 11:41

[Ozzie Osmond]

Ms Warsi might usefully ask her friends to address their enthusiasm for home-made explosives, preaching of extremism in certain mosques (if what we read/hear is to be believed) and "unusual" sense of everyday dress.

Those things have been highly instrumental in changing public attitudes to Muslims for the worse.

[tinman0]

Halb said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religio...

Obviously lots of insight to come from this keen mind in the cabinet.

I've liked her till now. Everyone in the UK is so careful not to say anything that might be offensive, nothing gets said in public nowadays.

But when like minded people get together, they say things that maybe they wouldn't in public. But when there is no fear of reprisal in private, people speak their minds.

What she is discovering is that the average person is uneasy about Islam, and when like minded people meet, they express those views. Attacking people for having a private conversation is a very worrying step in the wrong direction.

Double Good.

[carmonk]

Interesting that whenever liberals hear someone criticise something they hold dear, they state that person is bigotted. It doesn't occur to them that some people might have done the research, looked at the evidence and made up their mind in a logical manner and then decided to voice their opinion. Maybe they've been around religious ideology too long, which discourages the use of evidence, logic and basic intelligence in favour of blindly parrotting an absurd fairy tale.

[Pickled Piper]

greygoose said:

What would you imagine a Muslim member of the Cabinet would talk to an audience at the University of Leicester about?

Is she Muslim? I just thought she was a female member of the cabinet with a year round sun tan. Her religious persuasion is her own business.

Also, are you inferring that there are a large amount of Muslims at the University of Leicester? She may be addressing the Union of Budhist Students for all we know.

See what I've done there? I'm so PC I should be in the labour party.

pp

edited to add

Edited by Pickled Piper on Thursday 20th January 12:02

[s1962a]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Ms Warsi might usefully ask her friends to address their enthusiasm for home-made explosives, preaching of extremism in certain mosques (if what we read/hear is to be believed) and "unusual" sense of everyday dress.

Which friends are these then? You know something the public doesn't? If you know of anyone who has an 'enthusiasm for home-made explosives' then shop em to the police. Don't hang about posting about them on PH - somebody might get hurt.

[MadMullah]

i am finding it a bit cringing that she's coming out to say this. its going to be seen by ALOT of people as those damn muslims whinging again that they havent got equal rights etc.

it is as she says it is - being anti-muslim is the norm thing - it doesnt need pointing out - doing speeches about it wont help - if anything it will exacerbate the problem i feel.

with the recent ruling of the gays vs the christians B&B thing - many will see it as favouritism towards the minority and rejection of the majority.

[jesta1865]

Bill said:

So all muslims get lumped in with the extremists rather than where they belong, which is with the other religions in the deluded (IMO) but basically harmless group.

i think you are right, joe public sees some Islamic nutter spouting about imposing his religion on the uk, imposing sharia law, why Jews are the Antichrist and 9/11 was a good thing, and so because that's the only thing you tend to see on the telly and in the papers he assumes that all Muslims are raving nutters hell bent on world domination.

completely ignoring that the guy or lady behind the counter in his paper shop that he laughs and jokes with and always smiles could be Muslim.

we have a trainee here at work who is Muslim, and she was crying the other day because of people in Brazil losing their lives in the floods, many will be catholic but as she said, she is a human being first.

the problem is that because of the vocal few the quiet majority get tarred with the same brush.

mind if a few more were on the telly saying, ignore them they are loonies it may help?

[anonymous-user]

jesta1865 said:

we have a trainee here at work who is Muslim, and she was crying the other day because of people in Brazil losing their lives in the floods, many will be catholic but as she said, she is a human being first.

Do NOT employ her. She will be mental.

You have beebn warned!!!!

[Marf]

Sheeda Pistol said:

jesta1865 said:

we have a trainee here at work who is Muslim, and she was crying the other day because of people in Brazil losing their lives in the floods, many will be catholic but as she said, she is a human being first.

Do NOT employ her. She will be mental.

What makes you say she will be mental(sky fairy beliefs aside)?