A small bank related anecdote.

[raf_gti]

A friend of mine is a manager at a large independant petrol station in Scotland, with the recent weather fuel supplies have become somewhat erratic.

In order to satisfy customers using fuel cards the station has been forced to buy in stocks of fuel <> using their own money.

Given that fuel has gone up in costs you can imagine the effect it is having on the cash flow.

The reaction from the bank when asked for an emergency extention to the overdraft?

NO They actually told the owner to simply shut the business down for the duration of the fuel shortage.

Amazingly helpful, this is a business with a proven track record and is not a dodgy operator.

<> My understanding is that the reason they have to buy the fuel in at the moment is that ShellSoBP are not supplying fuel, however the station still needs fuel so they are having to buy it in from another supplier.

[s3fella]

So the business cannot bankroll itself and has "changed supplier" who wont give them credit terms. Ever thought that perhaps the Shell supplier wont give them any more credit as they're up against their cr. limit? And the new supplier knows it so will only give them fuel on COD or proforma?

In which case why would the bank afford them any further credit.

Sorry, but the numbers of businesses that enjoy seasonal sales then close up and stick theselves under is increasing year on year. I am not saying this is what he's planning, but you can hardly critisise the bank for not affording them further funding if they feel they wont get it back.

[JensenA]

s3fella said:

So the business cannot bankroll itself and has "changed supplier" who wont give them credit terms. Ever thought that perhaps the Shell supplier wont give them any more credit as they're up against their cr. limit? And the new supplier knows it so will only give them fuel on COD or proforma?

In which case why would the bank afford them any further credit.

Sorry, but the numbers of businesses that enjoy seasonal sales then close up and stick theselves under is increasing year on year. I am not saying this is what he's planning, but you can hardly critisise the bank for not affording them further funding if they feel they wont get it back.

Your reply illustrates exactly the point the OP was making, in reflecting exactly the attitude of banks to their customers.

[don4l]

Far too many businesses us an overdraft to fund their working capital. Once they have an overdraft, then their costs are going to be higher than some of their competitor's.


Don
--

[Flintstone]

s3fella said:

Ever thought that perhaps the Shell supplier wont give them any more credit as they're up against their cr. limit?

Ever thought that perhaps it's a good idea to read a thread first?

raf_gti said:

...with the recent weather fuel supplies have become somewhat erratic... My understanding is that the reason they have to buy the fuel in at the moment is that ShellSoBP are not supplying fuel, however the station still needs fuel so they are having to buy it in from another supplier.

Edited by Flintstone on Thursday 23 December 17:03

[raf_gti]

s3fella said:

So the business cannot bankroll itself and has "changed supplier" who wont give them credit terms. Ever thought that perhaps the Shell supplier wont give them any more credit as they're up against their cr. limit? And the new supplier knows it so will only give them fuel on COD or proforma?

In which case why would the bank afford them any further credit.

Sorry, but the numbers of businesses that enjoy seasonal sales then close up and stick theselves under is increasing year on year. I am not saying this is what he's planning, but you can hardly critisise the bank for not affording them further funding if they feel they wont get it back.

As already said, perhaps read the topic before going off on one next time

To be a little clearer than in my OP. The garage in question is supplier for one of the big fuel companies, it's located on a major trunk road and has a ridiculous amount of money passing through it every day.

Due to the weather the unions decided that they wouldn't allow the drivers to drive from the Grangemouth refinery, thus causing a pretty severe fuel shortage.

The garage doesn't actually own the fuel it receives from the refinery, it's merely an agent between the customer and the oil company.

In order to keep the garage open the owner has been forced to buy fuel from 'company xyz', naturally this has had to be paid for and I'm guessing that the order was at least a fuel tankers worth which is what? 30k or so?

Do you still believe the bank are in a position unlikley to get the money back?

[Tallbut Buxomly]

This topic is no surprise to me. Banks in the uk are utters cocks imho.
Dont know their arse from their elbow.

[BeeRoad]

I love my bank. Every couple of years they introduce me to a new business manager to help me run my business. After the first couple I learnt to interview them thoroughly. Not one has ever had any first hand experience of running a business. One had an A level in economics though. Three have been dizzy blondes who were under 21 and none could successfully explain to me such simple things as the difference between input and output VAT or gross margin. And they seem surprised when I ignore their advice.

[BeeRoad]

raf_gti said:

<> My understanding is that the reason they have to buy the fuel in at the moment is that ShellSoBP are not supplying fuel, however the station still needs fuel so they are having to buy it in from another supplier.

Has the petrol station put up signs informing their customers that the fuel they are purchasing may not be the same brand as the garage signage?

[Dr Jekyll]

BeeRoad said:

raf_gti said:

<> My understanding is that the reason they have to buy the fuel in at the moment is that ShellSoBP are not supplying fuel, however the station still needs fuel so they are having to buy it in from another supplier.

Has the petrol station put up signs informing their customers that the fuel they are purchasing may not be the same brand as the garage signage?

It's usual that it 'may not be the same', isn't it?

[s3fella]

Flintstone said:

s3fella said:

Ever thought that perhaps the Shell supplier wont give them any more credit as they're up against their cr. limit?

Ever thought that perhaps it's a good idea to read a thread first?

raf_gti said:

...with the recent weather fuel supplies have become somewhat erratic... My understanding is that the reason they have to buy the fuel in at the moment is that ShellSoBP are not supplying fuel, however the station still needs fuel so they are having to buy it in from another supplier.

Edited by Flintstone on Thursday 23 December 17:37

Actually I think it is YOU that needs to read the OP. He says Shell etc are not supplying fuel. He does not say why. It is not an unreasonable assumption that a huge supplier that stops supplying is doing so because they are worried that they wont get paid for it, as the bank also wont advsnce credit, for that very reason. ( I think it safe to assume that the bank's decision to not lend them money is that they are not able to deliver it in this bad weather).

The OP seems to have subsequently added further details about the reasons for the apparent loss of supply as clarification, perhaps realising that his OP was unclear on the issue?

My point is still that if the garage has it's own money it can get it from the bank and spend it as it choses. If it does not (as seems to be the case here), then the bank makes the credit decision and clearly has made it a NO. (Which also contributes to the reasonable initial assumption that there may be credit issues here from the Original Post regarding Shell).

Oh and the fact you double posted your rant, editied 30 mins apart, but saying near the same thing, just shows you're a flid.

Edited by s3fella on Friday 24th December 02:05

[s3fella]

raf_gti said:

s3fella said:

So the business cannot bankroll itself and has "changed supplier" who wont give them credit terms. Ever thought that perhaps the Shell supplier wont give them any more credit as they're up against their cr. limit? And the new supplier knows it so will only give them fuel on COD or proforma?

In which case why would the bank afford them any further credit.

Sorry, but the numbers of businesses that enjoy seasonal sales then close up and stick theselves under is increasing year on year. I am not saying this is what he's planning, but you can hardly critisise the bank for not affording them further funding if they feel they wont get it back.

As already said, perhaps read the topic before going off on one next time

To be a little clearer than in my OP. The garage in question is supplier for one of the big fuel companies, it's located on a major trunk road and has a ridiculous amount of money passing through it every day.

Due to the weather the unions decided that they wouldn't allow the drivers to drive from the Grangemouth refinery, thus causing a pretty severe fuel shortage.

The garage doesn't actually own the fuel it receives from the refinery, it's merely an agent between the customer and the oil company.

In order to keep the garage open the owner has been forced to buy fuel from 'company xyz', naturally this has had to be paid for and I'm guessing that the order was at least a fuel tankers worth which is what? 30k or so?

Do you still believe the bank are in a position unlikley to get the money back?

Perhaps be a bit clearer first time round then. The banks clearly thinks your mate's business is not strong enough to advance further (or maybe any) credit. If your mate genuiney thinks their decision is wrong, he could always try another bank.

If your point is converning their reported "advice" to close the business until the situation sorts itself out with the original supplier, well that is a decision for the owner not them. But maybe they were just suggesting that if the petrol sales are so important, and he cannot sell petrol cos he hasn't got any, then closing up would at least reduce his costs a little. Hwoever, as we all know, petrol retailers make the best part of fapp all on fuel, with marigns on bread, milk, sweets and other conveniences being far far higher. So if he sells this sort of stuff, it may be still viable to stay open.

You and he may think his business is strong enough to be advanced funds. But the bank does not it seems and it would appear they are the ones that matter.

[JensenA]

S3fella - your blindly missing the whole point. The point is that this is an illustration of how unhelpfull the banks are. if you can't understand that then stop posting b

[ZesPak]

JensenA said:

S3fella - your blindly missing the whole point. The point is that this is an illustration of how unhelpfull the banks are. if you can't understand that then stop posting b

excuse me? Banks are businesses, and they need to be able to get their money back. If they are not sure they'll get it back in due time, they shouldn't give the loan.

Or should they? Hmmm wonder what would happen if the banks just gave out loans that people can't pay back, I can't imagine that ending well

As said, if the bank makes a bad call in your opinion, go talk to another bank.

Edited by ZesPak on Friday 24th December 08:48

[GeraldSmith]

JensenA said:

S3fella - your blindly missing the whole point. The point is that this is an illustration of how unhelpfull the banks are. if you can't understand that then stop posting b

On the other hand it could be an example of a bank making a perfectly reasonable decision. We know nothing of the financial status, lending history or collateral offered. Given that the supply of fuel is not hugely disrupted and the usual supplier will, you have to assume, resume deliveries after only a short disruption the suggestion to close for a short period is probably the sensible route to take.

Of course if you simply want to prove the banks are unhelpful that analysis isn't very helpful, but it's probably accurate nevertheless.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Part of the problem here is that fuel is expensive to buy and the garage's margin is very small. In other words, they would have to borrow a lot of money to unlock the potential for a small profit.

If you think about it there are very few "petrol stations" these days. Most have become "convenience stores" which sell petrol almost as a loss leader. Often more profit from the coffee, cakes and biscuits than there is from the fuel, despite the humungous fuel sales £figure.

In this case the big question is how the particular business is structured, whether the bank fully understands that picture and, if so, whether the bank really believes the projections.

[Digga]

BeeRoad said:

I love my bank. Every couple of years they introduce me to a new business manager to help me run my business...

Which is why we didtched the big high street banks and found better service elsewhere.

Manager-churn was just one of the many and various buggerations visited on us by previous banks, but is indicative of the paucity of their strategy. No doubt you spend more time giving advice - explaining who and what your business is than receiving any meaninful advice?

Then there's the 'bonus' appointments when said manager brings their pensions and/opr insurance 'experts' to meetings, unannounced.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Digga said:

Then there's the 'bonus' appointments when said manager brings their pensions and/opr insurance 'experts' to meetings, unannounced.

Quite. IMO it was the death knell of high street banking when they all decided to become retailers of financial services.

[BeeRoad]

Digga said:

Then there's the 'bonus' appointments when said manager brings their pensions and/opr insurance 'experts' to meetings, unannounced.

They did that once to me - I threw them all out and made the BM re-appoint on her own.

[BeeRoad]

Dr Jekyll said:

BeeRoad said:

raf_gti said:

<> My understanding is that the reason they have to buy the fuel in at the moment is that ShellSoBP are not supplying fuel, however the station still needs fuel so they are having to buy it in from another supplier.

Has the petrol station put up signs informing their customers that the fuel they are purchasing may not be the same brand as the garage signage?

It's usual that it 'may not be the same', isn't it?

I wouldn't have thought so - if I pay for Shell, I expect Shell, especially as I use V-Power.