The start of everything

[mcdjl]

This is undoubtely going to cause some debate but if possible can we keep it civil to the point....no name calling etc please?
As far as I'm aware there are two major views on how the universe came into being.
These are:
1)"God said let there be light etc" according to the Abrahmic religions (ie Judiasm, Christianity and Islam).
2) There was a lot of energy floating round that took up no space at all then one day it got bored slowed down and had to turn solid and did so with a Big Bang (or similar)

If anything I'd like to add a 3rd option of if we ever get the LHC at CERN up and running to create a big bang whats to say it won't create a new universe inside it: would that effectively make us gods to whoever occupies that universe? and also make the big bang theory true? (ignoring the question of whos LHC made us).

I have to admit I have no idea what the Budhists/Hindus and no doubt several other religions think about the start of the universe, so if anyone can enlighten me please feel free.

What I'd actually like is for some one to explain why or how one of views above is right without resorting to a it just is type slanging match.

I'd describe myself as Catholic but would equally state that I don't believe in the bible in a world made in 7 days way (I accept that evolution is real, I just can't fathom how some atoms one day went from being carbon etc and then formed up and became alive) and neither do i believe the church is right in all its teachings, but thats not my point. On the basis of what I've just said a lot of people wouldn't really describe me as Catholic anyway though...far too picky over what i want to believe. It just seems to me that far too many people are willing to put faith in science without much more reason than I chose to believe in God. If I'm being honest perhaps religion for me is a comfort blanket to protect me from the big bad unknown, though I'd like to think it has made me a better person. At least I (in my opinion) am open to both views -unlike some it appears from my biased view.

[Mojooo]

Perhaps man doesn't have the *real* answer - I agree that people maybe put too much faith in science but I think the big bang theory is the only major theory going on the creation of the universe from the science world.....?

Edited by Mojooo on Friday 17th September 00:43

[Blue Meanie]

The Big Bang theory is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Its not just a case of "it got bored" and blew up... There is a talk on pootube by Laurence Krauss that talks about the beginning of the universe. Well worth the hour it takes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

Edited by Blue Meanie on Friday 17th September 00:52

[mcdjl]

Blue Meanie said:

The Big Bang theory is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Its not just a case of "it got bored" and blew up... There is a talk on pootube by Laurence Krauss that talks about the beginning of the universe. Well worth the hour it takes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

Cheers for the link, I will watch it given time- an hour is too long as one block for the next few days

[TimJMS]

Big Bang was the scornful description given to the theory by Fred Hoyle who always subscribed to the Steady State Theory. Annoyingly for him, scientists ran with both the theory and his description of it. PH factoid for the day.

[crmcatee]

I prefer Spike Milligans version of the bible.


In the beginning god created the heaven and the earth.
And darkness was upon the face of the deep; this was due to a malfunction at Lots Road power station.
And God said Let there be light; and there was light, but Eastern Electricity Board said he would have to wait until Thursday to be connected.
And God saw the light and it was good; he saw the quarterly bill and that was not good.

[dirkgently]

crmcatee said:

I prefer Spike Milligans version of the bible.


In the beginning god created the heaven and the earth.
And darkness was upon the face of the deep; this was due to a malfunction at Lots Road power station.
And God said Let there be light; and there was light, but Eastern Electricity Board said he would have to wait until Thursday to be connected.
And God saw the light and it was good; he saw the quarterly bill and that was not good.

If you want an explanation of creation in a nutshell Genesis dosent make a bad job of it, imo Or you could go with the science, "In the beginning there was nothing which exploded".

[Puggit]

Both theories - god (whichever one on the planet you choose) and the big bang theory all require that something was in place before everything started.

So both sets of theories are very difficult to prove. However, at least with the big bang theory you can prove what happened after the initial event

[anonymous-user]

If there is a God who made him/her/it? What was there before the big bang? There can't be nothingness can there?

[Liokault]

Dave_ST220 said:

If there is a God who made him/her/it? What was there before the big bang? There can't be nothingness can there?

Before the "Big Bang" the universe existed in a hot dense state........theres a song about it.


You cant say there was nothing before the big bang as things such as time and distance didnt have the same meaning that they do now.

[Bing o]

I fail to see how this is news, politics or economics, can a mod move it to the theology forum please?

[G_T]

Liokault said:

Dave_ST220 said:

If there is a God who made him/her/it? What was there before the big bang? There can't be nothingness can there?

Before the "Big Bang" the universe existed in a hot dense state........theres a song about it.

You cant say there was nothing before the big bang as things such as time and distance didnt have the same meaning that they do now.

Time is relative.

Lunch time doubly so.

[G_T]

As pointed out I think theoretical physicists are still trying to explain what caused the big bang. That isn't to say they don't have some ideas.

We do have a pretty good idea of what happened immediately after it though.

One thing you can be sure of is that, like every single other mystery in the history of humanity, "God" will not be the cause.

It's a bit like Scooby Doo really. Where you spend about 20 minutes wondering if it really is magic or not only to find without fail that it's just some fker with a vested interest and a costume.

Either way Shaggy, Stephen Hawkings and the gang are on to it.

ETA: Oh and regards "universes being created", I think I'm correct in saying these are hypothesised as being absolutely tiny, so having sufficient matter to create a replica of our universe and that spawns sentient life will be somewhat unlikely.

Edited by G_T on Friday 17th September 12:03

[anonymous-user]

G_T said:

Oh and regards "universes being created", I think I'm correct in saying these are hypothesised as being absolutely tiny, so having sufficient matter to create a replica of our universe and that spawns sentient life will be somewhat unlikely.
[/footnote]

But I thought THE universe is constantly expanding? In which case it(a newly created one) will swallow us all within seconds.

[G_T]

Dave_ST220 said:

G_T said:

Oh and regards "universes being created", I think I'm correct in saying these are hypothesised as being absolutely tiny, so having sufficient matter to create a replica of our universe and that spawns sentient life will be somewhat unlikely.
[/footnote]

But I thought THE universe is constantly expanding? In which case it(a newly created one) will swallow us all within seconds.

Not as I understand it mate. Our Universe is contanstantly expanding. Other universes could, and possible do exist without expanding. They could be the size of a pin head.

I'm not well versed enough to tell you why our universe is expanding but I think it comes as a function of the big bang. As there would be no big bang, and nowhere near the energy that created our universe, it would strike me as an impossibility.

Besides, if there is sufficient matter in our universe, then our universe may start getting smaller eventually anyway! (Although I don't think people are very keen about this idea anymore).

Edited by G_T on Friday 17th September 12:32

[NoNeed]

mcdjl said:

This is undoubtely going to cause some debate but if possible can we keep it civil to the point....no name calling etc please?
As far as I'm aware there are two major views on how the universe came into being.
These are:
1)"God said let there be light etc" according to the Abrahmic religions (ie Judiasm, Christianity and Islam).
2) There was a lot of energy floating round that took up no space at all then one day it got bored slowed down and had to turn solid and did so with a Big Bang (or similar)

If anything I'd like to add a 3rd option of if we ever get the LHC at CERN up and running to create a big bang whats to say it won't create a new universe inside it: would that effectively make us gods to whoever occupies that universe? and also make the big bang theory true? (ignoring the question of whos LHC made us).

I have to admit I have no idea what the Budhists/Hindus and no doubt several other religions think about the start of the universe, so if anyone can enlighten me please feel free.

What I'd actually like is for some one to explain why or how one of views above is right without resorting to a it just is type slanging match.

I'd describe myself as Catholic but would equally state that I don't believe in the bible in a world made in 7 days way (I accept that evolution is real, I just can't fathom how some atoms one day went from being carbon etc and then formed up and became alive) and neither do i believe the church is right in all its teachings, but thats not my point. On the basis of what I've just said a lot of people wouldn't really describe me as Catholic anyway though...far too picky over what i want to believe. It just seems to me that far too many people are willing to put faith in science without much more reason than I chose to believe in God. If I'm being honest perhaps religion for me is a comfort blanket to protect me from the big bad unknown, though I'd like to think it has made me a better person. At least I (in my opinion) am open to both views -unlike some it appears from my biased view.

I'm church of england, but apart from that it sounds like we think alike.

[slipstream 1985]

i heard that 10 tvr's all started up at once and the resulting noise started the big bang

[NoNeed]

slipstream 1985 said:

i heard that 10 tvr's all started up at once and the resulting noise started the big bang

That's a classic distorted rumour, it was actually the sound of them all breaking down in unison.

[Tsippy]

I guess the problem is that we believe something has to be created to exist rather than accepting that something might just simply exist. At some point, even if we do believe in the universe been created by a big bang or sky fairy that in turn was created by something before it, something that created that will have simply existed.

It's pretty fked up when you think deep into it

[anonymous-user]

Tsippy said:

I guess the problem is that we believe something has to be created to exist rather than accepting that something might just simply exist. At some point, even if we do believe in the universe been created by a big bang or sky fairy that in turn was created by something before it, something that created that will have simply existed.

It's pretty fked up when you think deep into it

Is is indeed, we usally cover deep thoughts like this while pissed during a lock in