Surveillance cameras in Birmingham track Muslims' every move
Surveillance cameras in Birmingham track Muslims' every move
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Agrilla

Original Poster:

834 posts

213 months

Wednesday 9th June 2010
quotequote all
Surveillance cameras in Birmingham track Muslims' every move

Counterterrorism police have targeted hundreds of surveillance cameras on two Muslim areas of Birmingham, enabling them to track the precise movements of people entering and leaving the neighbourhoods.

The project has principally been sold to locals as an attempt to combat antisocial behaviour, vehicle crime and drug dealing in the area. But the cameras have been paid for by a £3m grant from a government fund, the Terrorism and Allied Matters Fund, which is administered by the Association of Chief Police Officers.

About 150 automatic numberplate recognition (ANPR) cameras have been installed in Washwood Heath and Sparkbrook in recent months. Birmingham's two predominantly Muslim suburbs will be covered by three times more ANPR cameras than are used to monitor the entire city centre. They include about 40 cameras classed as "covert", meaning they have been concealed from public view.

The funding arrangement was not made clear to the handful of councillors who were briefed that the cameras would appear in their area. Instead, they were told only that the money had come from the Home Office. "I raised my concern then: is this really about spying?" said Salma Yaqoob, a member of the Respect party and councillor for Sparkbrook.

"The terrorism aspect was certainly not emphasised in that meeting. In fact it was me having to be portrayed as the awkward squad, or even paranoid, for even raising the issue of whether this was really about counterterrorism. They were very much saying, 'No, this is about burglary and crime.'"

The criteria for TAM funds state clearly that a police force must prove a project will "deter or prevent terrorism or help to prosecute those responsible".

Police sources said the initiative, code-named Project Champion, is the first of its kind in the UK that seeks to monitor a population seen as "at risk" of extremism.

When the cameras become operative, residents will not be able to drive into or leave the two neighbourhoods without their movements being tracked.

Officials maintain the cameras will prove useful for tackling a whole range crime. The areas were ringfenced for intense surveillance in 2007 after a police investigation into a suspected plot to kidnap and kill a British soldier in the area.

The Safer Birmingham Partnership, a joint initiative between police and the local authority which will run the cameras, expressed "regret" there had not been fuller consultation. Senior SBP officials said they only became aware that the cameras were paid for by counterterrorism funds as a result of Guardian inquiries.

Jackie Russell, the director of the partnership, said: "Just because the funding has an interest in counterterrorism doesn't mean that for us, that is our focus. For us, it is about community safety."

Steve Jolly, a local activist leading a campaign to have the cameras removed, called on the deputy prime minister to intervene: "Nick Clegg has made a real point of emphatically drawing attention to the surveillance society and promising to stop unnecessary infringements of privacy," he said. "I think we should hold him to his word, and say, 'Look at what is happening in Birmingham – are you going to allow it to go ahead?'"


About bloomin time? or Too much Big Brother?

Edited by Agrilla on Wednesday 9th June 22:40

WhoseGeneration

4,090 posts

237 months

Wednesday 9th June 2010
quotequote all
Interesting dilemma for those of us of a Libertarian view.

AndrewW-G

11,968 posts

247 months

Wednesday 9th June 2010
quotequote all
Big brother, if only the traitorous scum of the labour party had only spent as much time controlling our borders and immigration as they have done watching and controlling the people of this little island

odyssey2200

18,650 posts

239 months

Wednesday 9th June 2010
quotequote all
AndrewW-G said:
Big brother, if only the traitorous scum of the labour party had only spent as much time controlling our borders and immigration as they have done watching and controlling the people of this little island
yes

shutting stable door after horse has legged it.

Edited by odyssey2200 on Wednesday 9th June 23:33

Agrilla

Original Poster:

834 posts

213 months

Wednesday 9th June 2010
quotequote all
Another article

£3million? Good grief.

This article also suggests that further cameras have been installed in Kings Heath & Moseley

Noted that the liaison officer for the Safer Birmingham Partnership is Inspector Kevin Borg.

Hmmm.


DAVEVO9

3,469 posts

297 months

Wednesday 9th June 2010
quotequote all
Agrilla said:
Police sources said the initiative, code-named Project Champion, is the first of its kind in the UK that seeks to monitor a population seen as "at risk" of extremism.
Good! money well spent.. someone has to keep an eye on the fkers!

TheEnd

15,370 posts

218 months

Wednesday 9th June 2010
quotequote all
the police sources i saw on the news said they were mostly ANPR cameras, which catch a lot of dodgy drivers as it's not really a great area.

Chris_w666

22,655 posts

229 months

Wednesday 9th June 2010
quotequote all
DAVEVO9 said:
Agrilla said:
Police sources said the initiative, code-named Project Champion, is the first of its kind in the UK that seeks to monitor a population seen as "at risk" of extremism.
Good! money well spent.. someone has to keep an eye on the fkers!
If the moderate muslims in these areas want to live alongside the rest of the people who either have another imaginary friend, or don't give a toss about churches, then they would use their considerable strength in numbers to either stamp out the extremists or throw them out of their community and let the powers that be know why they have done it.


dreamz

5,299 posts

223 months

Thursday 10th June 2010
quotequote all
Chris_w666 said:
DAVEVO9 said:
Agrilla said:
Police sources said the initiative, code-named Project Champion, is the first of its kind in the UK that seeks to monitor a population seen as "at risk" of extremism.
Good! money well spent.. someone has to keep an eye on the fkers!
If the moderate muslims in these areas want to live alongside the rest of the people who either have another imaginary friend, or don't give a toss about churches, then they would use their considerable strength in numbers to either stamp out the extremists or throw them out of their community and let the powers that be know why they have done it.
i love how people seem to think that all muslims are full well aware of who the wannabe terrorists are.

not even the partners/parents knew what the 7/7 guys had planned - hilarious to think that a whole community would.

Agrilla

Original Poster:

834 posts

213 months

Thursday 10th June 2010
quotequote all
But surely the 'terrorists' will just move any suspicious terrorist behaviour up the road to Bordesley Green/Balsall Heath/Ladywood/Highgate etc - all areas which are near, all which seem predominantly Muslim?

I'd be amazed if these cameras actually dealt with the issue at all.

Chris_w666

22,655 posts

229 months

Thursday 10th June 2010
quotequote all
dreamz said:
Chris_w666 said:
DAVEVO9 said:
Agrilla said:
Police sources said the initiative, code-named Project Champion, is the first of its kind in the UK that seeks to monitor a population seen as "at risk" of extremism.
Good! money well spent.. someone has to keep an eye on the fkers!
If the moderate muslims in these areas want to live alongside the rest of the people who either have another imaginary friend, or don't give a toss about churches, then they would use their considerable strength in numbers to either stamp out the extremists or throw them out of their community and let the powers that be know why they have done it.
i love how people seem to think that all muslims are full well aware of who the wannabe terrorists are.

not even the partners/parents knew what the 7/7 guys had planned - hilarious to think that a whole community would.
Perhaps they don't know which ones will put anything into action, in fact I would be shocked if they did. But extremist views are the danger if they spread it isn't secret terrorists we would need to be worried about.

Look at how the EDL marches gathered steam and following from people who would not usually bother, those marches have a huge threat of a major kick off. If an extreme muslim group carried the same weight of feeling amongst some disaffected men in their community and the 2 groups met then the consequences in places like Birmingham could be huge.

Superficial

753 posts

204 months

Thursday 10th June 2010
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I'm really in two minds about them. I guess in the end the sad fact is we need to protect ourselves from terror attacks, but this is a step too far. I don't believe in the whole 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' rubbish either, this is stepping on our civil liberties, especially claims that some cameras can see right into people's homes.

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

234 months

Thursday 10th June 2010
quotequote all
Well its certainly one way to encourage extremism isn't it.

How would you feel if you were tracked in and out of your cosy little estate?

You would be mighty pissed off and quite rightly so.

the_lone_wolf

2,622 posts

216 months

Thursday 10th June 2010
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Agrilla said:
Jackie Russell, the director of the partnership, said...
Parents can be so cruel...

Mojocvh

16,837 posts

292 months

Thursday 10th June 2010
quotequote all
TVR Moneypit said:
Agrilla said:
But surely the 'terrorists' will just move any suspicious terrorist behaviour up the road to Bordesley Green/Balsall Heath/Ladywood/Highgate etc - all areas which are near, all which seem predominantly Muslim?

I'd be amazed if these cameras actually dealt with the issue at all.
They wont.

All that will happen is that they will either move up the road like you said, catch the bus, or walk.

There you go. £3'000'000 made useless in the blink of an eye.


If they know there is ob's on them, (and they will now), do you really think they will stick around?
Exactly.

However for the citizens who are now tracked 24/7 I would imagine that the coverage will be an intense source of comfort....

Pickled Piper

6,452 posts

265 months

Thursday 10th June 2010
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No idea about terrorism but based on experiences of Sparkbrook, I would hazard a guess that about 4000 Asian lads are logged on to confused.com and are busy buying motor insurance about now. They may start wearing their seat belts as well!

I guess I will be logged every time I go and buy samosas.

smilepp

DAVEVO9

3,469 posts

297 months

Thursday 10th June 2010
quotequote all
Pickled Piper said:
No idea about terrorism but based on experiences of Sparkbrook, I would hazard a guess that about 4000 Asian lads are logged on to confused.com and are busy buying motor insurance about now. They may start wearing their seat belts as well!

I guess I will be logged every time I go and buy samosas.

smilepp
rofl

Asterix

24,438 posts

258 months

Friday 11th June 2010
quotequote all
the_lone_wolf said:
Agrilla said:
Jackie Russell, the director of the partnership, said...
Parents can be so cruel...
So true - 3rd up, far right.

http://www.electraisd.net/alumni/display_class.asp...

OnTheOverrun

3,965 posts

207 months

Friday 11th June 2010
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"Surveillance cameras in Birmingham track Muslims' every move"

Wow, that really is an amazing advance in surveillance technology - the ability to track people purely on the basis of their religion in a hugely multi-cultural area!

Or is it a complete non-story and in actual fact it tracks everyone passing through the area just like every other cctv/anpr system in the world. . . . . . . .

FishFace

3,790 posts

238 months

Friday 11th June 2010
quotequote all
A sensationalist headline which does nothing but cause community tension. Would anyone care if you replaced the word 'Muslim' with 'Gypsy' if the authorities were targeting 'community specific criminality'?

TVR Moneypit said:
Agrilla said:
But surely the 'terrorists' will just move any suspicious terrorist behaviour up the road to Bordesley Green/Balsall Heath/Ladywood/Highgate etc - all areas which are near, all which seem predominantly Muslim?

I'd be amazed if these cameras actually dealt with the issue at all.
They wont.

All that will happen is that they will either move up the road like you said, catch the bus, or walk.

There you go. £3'000'000 made useless in the blink of an eye.


If they know there is ob's on them, (and they will now), do you really think they will stick around?
Even if they did, their absence may be the final part in completing an intelligence picture. The intelligence gained already may well justify the investment. Also, if it is for ANPR it has sustainable use for other crime matters, especially if it's an area that has crime interests beyond terrorism.

The problem is we're tempting to draw negative conclusions as we'll never ever have access to the true motives, use and worth of this system because of the protected nature of the subject matter.