Australians explain European debt problem
Discussion
hah, It's a fantastic sketch show, this ones good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgrX7uOZqHI
muffinmenace said:
hah, It's a fantastic sketch show, this ones good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgrX7uOZqHI
like itSmoothRB said:
I though Australian sovereign was way (relatively) lower than the UK?
Anyway Oz is experiencing it's own property bubble....it just kept on going after 2008, never stopped. It's like a fever there. Huge amount of private debt being accumulated.
all on the back of mining jobs.Anyway Oz is experiencing it's own property bubble....it just kept on going after 2008, never stopped. It's like a fever there. Huge amount of private debt being accumulated.
The massive Gorgon gas project has created 10,000 jobs.
Unskilled labour can make AUD$120,000 + for fly in/fly out work in mines.
Cleaners are making AUD$100,000.
It is mad. There is a massive shortage of skilled mining and oil/gas workers over there. A mate is on $350k + $50k 'please don't get headhunted' golden handcuff as a mine manager.
This is why Perth property is now more expensive than Sydney property.
It is mad - but it is a beautiful place with great weather and lifestyle benefits.
A bit too remote for my liking, and now you really need $$$$$ to enjoy the restaurants, but a decent house with any semblance of sea or river views.
johnfm said:
SmoothRB said:
I though Australian sovereign was way (relatively) lower than the UK?
Anyway Oz is experiencing it's own property bubble....it just kept on going after 2008, never stopped. It's like a fever there. Huge amount of private debt being accumulated.
all on the back of mining jobs.Anyway Oz is experiencing it's own property bubble....it just kept on going after 2008, never stopped. It's like a fever there. Huge amount of private debt being accumulated.
The massive Gorgon gas project has created 10,000 jobs.
Unskilled labour can make AUD$120,000 + for fly in/fly out work in mines.
Cleaners are making AUD$100,000.
It is mad. There is a massive shortage of skilled mining and oil/gas workers over there. A mate is on $350k + $50k 'please don't get headhunted' golden handcuff as a mine manager.
This is why Perth property is now more expensive than Sydney property.
It is mad - but it is a beautiful place with great weather and lifestyle benefits.
A bit too remote for my liking, and now you really need $$$$$ to enjoy the restaurants, but a decent house with any semblance of sea or river views.
Your money seems like a lot but property is mental and just every day things like a pint of milk are sky high.
Nice place but - even on half decent money - I would have been looking at outer suburbs for a house and it's a bit 'samey' like American suburbs.
Most of those Gorgon jobs are temporary BTW. Once it's running it needs way less people than the construction phase.
Nice place like you say though, very clean, beautiful etc, but remote.
Mining has aways been peaks and troughs but this bubble seems to have been exaerbated by easy UK/US style credit. It's really changing Oz society going from fairly egalitarian promising a good house and lifestyle to blue collar workers, to more UK/US big gaps between rich and poor, 'get rich quick' kind of thing, gated communities....plus massive 3rd world immigration.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's peculiar. There are other things happening, that are making me think that AUS, is like UK/US was back in Jan 2002. I'm not sure if they're behind or ahead, but I don't think you can measure AUS simply on their performance since Jan 2008.I think they have at least ten years of rough times ahead. I'm hoping that things are going to improve here, but if they don't then perhaps AUS has even more trouble ahead.
muffinmenace said:
hah, It's a fantastic sketch show, this ones good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgrX7uOZqHI
That reminds me of seeing John Prescott, a former seaman I believe talking about the sinking of the Gaul on Newsnight several years ago. A diving expedition to the wreck had found that a particular hatch had been left open, Prescott was explaining the consequences of this hatch being left open in a storm, and ended up saying that it could lead to 'the money coming flooding in'. Quite a freudian slip from the champagne socialist I thought.SmoothRB said:
dilbert said:
It's peculiar. There are other things happening, that are making me think that AUS, is like UK/US was back in Jan 2002.
I think the mindset is like that. Everyone is 'true believers' in the 'property miracle'.You get radio adverts for buy to let investment schemes.
The property bubble has to burst soon.
Take me for example. I'm 25, worked hard and have a job that pays AU$100,000 a year. Roughly translates as £65000 a year. Not bad money, right? It's close about a third above the average income for Sydney.
I simply cannot afford to buy anywhere within Sydney that isn't a studio apartment in a bad area, around 35kms from the centre. It's not because of any reason to do with savings - it's just not possible to get a place without forking over more than 40% of your paycheck.
The biggest problem is negative gearing taxation laws. It allows middle aged, middle class individuals to use the money they pay on investment properties as a tax deduction. It's a ludicrous situation and is causing more and harm, inflating property prices.
On the upside for the Aussies, they have vast mineral wealth. Unlike us they have less need of QE, because they are in a position to sell their way out. If they need gold they can dig it up. I doubt it's quite that easy but it demonstrates the point.
The trouble for them is that if the rest of the world is in recession, there's no-one to sell all that mineral wealth to. Gold and Oil, that's pretty easy, but Bauxite? I'd say that's a demand driven mineral.
Funnily enough, the thing about Australia that got me thinking was a regular video blog, from a guy who lives in Sydney. The chap who does the blog is pretty technical, which is why I'm interested. The thing that struck me were the circumstances of this blog. You pick odd things up. Other things that aren't mentioned and don't add up. The picture as a whole presents a bit like a jigsaw. You can work out what the missing bits must show, but it's not the subject of the blog.
The housing thing mentioned here fits that picture. I didn't know about that before, I reckon that this blogger is probably one who gains by the tax concession mentioned above. Perhaps it's the final piece of the jigsaw.
The trouble for them is that if the rest of the world is in recession, there's no-one to sell all that mineral wealth to. Gold and Oil, that's pretty easy, but Bauxite? I'd say that's a demand driven mineral.
Funnily enough, the thing about Australia that got me thinking was a regular video blog, from a guy who lives in Sydney. The chap who does the blog is pretty technical, which is why I'm interested. The thing that struck me were the circumstances of this blog. You pick odd things up. Other things that aren't mentioned and don't add up. The picture as a whole presents a bit like a jigsaw. You can work out what the missing bits must show, but it's not the subject of the blog.
The housing thing mentioned here fits that picture. I didn't know about that before, I reckon that this blogger is probably one who gains by the tax concession mentioned above. Perhaps it's the final piece of the jigsaw.
Edited by dilbert on Sunday 23 May 12:24
Colonial said:
SmoothRB said:
dilbert said:
It's peculiar. There are other things happening, that are making me think that AUS, is like UK/US was back in Jan 2002.
I think the mindset is like that. Everyone is 'true believers' in the 'property miracle'.You get radio adverts for buy to let investment schemes.
The property bubble has to burst soon.
Take me for example. I'm 25, worked hard and have a job that pays AU$100,000 a year. Roughly translates as £65000 a year. Not bad money, right? It's close about a third above the average income for Sydney.
I simply cannot afford to buy anywhere within Sydney that isn't a studio apartment in a bad area, around 35kms from the centre. It's not because of any reason to do with savings - it's just not possible to get a place without forking over more than 40% of your paycheck.
The biggest problem is negative gearing taxation laws. It allows middle aged, middle class individuals to use the money they pay on investment properties as a tax deduction. It's a ludicrous situation and is causing more and harm, inflating property prices.
The economy is a different matter, our trade position is almost entirely predicated by what happens in China.
And, of course, the middle ring suburbs around Sydney, for instance, like Gordon, Roseville etc etc will remain houses on 800-1200square metre blocks instead of medium density development.
Yeah, sure, land releases in the north and south west, but in reality most areas can't expand. Can only increase the density. Which they won't do. Because it is unpopular.
I can rent a decent place in a nice suburb, but house ownership is a distant dream anywhere close to work.
Yeah, sure, land releases in the north and south west, but in reality most areas can't expand. Can only increase the density. Which they won't do. Because it is unpopular.
I can rent a decent place in a nice suburb, but house ownership is a distant dream anywhere close to work.
The victorian state government is doing all it can to prevent the realese of land, land tax on subdivision is huge, their 2020 plan is a joke. As a single bloke on a decent income i'm f
ked, i made close to 100k last year and i can't afford to live where i rent, five years ago housing prices where i live were around 350-400k now they're in the 700-850k range. Its insane
ked, i made close to 100k last year and i can't afford to live where i rent, five years ago housing prices where i live were around 350-400k now they're in the 700-850k range. Its insaneCaptain Flashman said:
Colonial said:
SmoothRB said:
dilbert said:
It's peculiar. There are other things happening, that are making me think that AUS, is like UK/US was back in Jan 2002.
I think the mindset is like that. Everyone is 'true believers' in the 'property miracle'.You get radio adverts for buy to let investment schemes.
The property bubble has to burst soon.
Take me for example. I'm 25, worked hard and have a job that pays AU$100,000 a year. Roughly translates as £65000 a year. Not bad money, right? It's close about a third above the average income for Sydney.
I simply cannot afford to buy anywhere within Sydney that isn't a studio apartment in a bad area, around 35kms from the centre. It's not because of any reason to do with savings - it's just not possible to get a place without forking over more than 40% of your paycheck.
The biggest problem is negative gearing taxation laws. It allows middle aged, middle class individuals to use the money they pay on investment properties as a tax deduction. It's a ludicrous situation and is causing more and harm, inflating property prices.
The economy is a different matter, our trade position is almost entirely predicated by what happens in China.
I guess you have net immigration also to help fuel the thing...coupled with the reluctance to release plots of land etc.
Still it is a pyramid scheme and can't last.
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