Disunited Kingdom
Discussion
Isn't it time England left the UK?
Not only would we have a Conservative government already, but more than that, without pandering to the stalinists north of the border it would probably be a much more right wing government too.
Why are they so attached to the union? Why does no one in England seem to want to get England out of it so, amongst other benefits, we can have a government that we actually want?
And I'm not being anti Scottish or Welsh at all, but this election just seems to have thrown up a real divide, especially between England and Scotland.
Not only would we have a Conservative government already, but more than that, without pandering to the stalinists north of the border it would probably be a much more right wing government too.
Why are they so attached to the union? Why does no one in England seem to want to get England out of it so, amongst other benefits, we can have a government that we actually want?
And I'm not being anti Scottish or Welsh at all, but this election just seems to have thrown up a real divide, especially between England and Scotland.
Well - the Scots got their own assembly. They have home rule - except on matters of overall national import (like Defence). The perception that they are now ruled from Westminster is one that hangs over from the days before the assembly IMO. But I do believe that many Scots have that perception.
The Scots do not vote Tory: which is why IF they believe they are ruled from Westminster by a Tory government it is somewhat unfair.
The English, on the other hand, have voted very Tory on this occasion and mostly Tory in 2005 (not enough that they'd have had a majority in England). In England the Tories would have had a majority this time: no coalition nonsense.
The English had started to feel aggrieved that Scots MPs could vote in the assembly on issues for Scotland and also vote on similar issues in Westminster for England.
An example: they could vote to abolish tuition fees at Scottish universities for Scottish students and then go on to back Labour government policy of tuition fees for English students at any university in the UK.
This is the "West Lothian" question if I've got my West/East right.
In any event something does now need doing about it.
Personally I would like to see Welsh and Scots MPs barred from votes on English only issues - rather than an English Assembly. Make the English MPs do the work they're paid for.
We'll see if anything really gets done. Hard to tell as the Lib Dems might find that unpalatable.
The Scots do not vote Tory: which is why IF they believe they are ruled from Westminster by a Tory government it is somewhat unfair.
The English, on the other hand, have voted very Tory on this occasion and mostly Tory in 2005 (not enough that they'd have had a majority in England). In England the Tories would have had a majority this time: no coalition nonsense.
The English had started to feel aggrieved that Scots MPs could vote in the assembly on issues for Scotland and also vote on similar issues in Westminster for England.
An example: they could vote to abolish tuition fees at Scottish universities for Scottish students and then go on to back Labour government policy of tuition fees for English students at any university in the UK.
This is the "West Lothian" question if I've got my West/East right.
In any event something does now need doing about it.
Personally I would like to see Welsh and Scots MPs barred from votes on English only issues - rather than an English Assembly. Make the English MPs do the work they're paid for.
We'll see if anything really gets done. Hard to tell as the Lib Dems might find that unpalatable.
There is very few english only issues as we share many many things with you lot down south.
Also the country doesn't have a tory government it has a tory/lib dem government and up here in the north there are lots of lib dem mps. Between them the tories and lib dems have 36% of the vote where as labour had 41% the only reason we have so many labour MPs is the same reason that england has so many because the boundrys have been fiddled considerably so the each labour seat is smaller then a tory/ lib dem seat
Also the country doesn't have a tory government it has a tory/lib dem government and up here in the north there are lots of lib dem mps. Between them the tories and lib dems have 36% of the vote where as labour had 41% the only reason we have so many labour MPs is the same reason that england has so many because the boundrys have been fiddled considerably so the each labour seat is smaller then a tory/ lib dem seat
Edited by thinfourth2 on Wednesday 12th May 07:21
el stovey said:
This would be England's first non Labour government since 1997. Lets not pretend it's 'everyone else' who kept voting for Labour.
That is quite right. England voted Labour and Labour would have had a majority in England in 97,01 and 05.Labour, on the other hand, have a large majority in Scotland. With the Lib Dems in a paltry second place and just one Tory seat.
We may see the "West Lothian" question in reverse. Is it fair that two parties with little representation in Scotland rule? Well no. No it isn't. Except there is a Scottish Assembly...
If I were a Scottish politician I would be more and more inclined to want full devolution as the politics on each side of the border is now very different - whereas for the last thirteen years it was more aligned.
Politics is rather polarised around the border.
Don said:
The Scots do not vote Tory: which is why IF they believe they are ruled from Westminster by a Tory government it is somewhat unfair.
Yet the English vote Tory then end up ruled from Westminister by a Labour Govt, and they are Scots, is that not also unfair? But that is what we had for the last 13 years.Apart from a vocal minority of tossers, a lot of people (more than the socialists would like you to think) are whatever's first and British second and would most certainly take a bloody dim view of Britain being broken up into chunks.
Divide and conquer. The UK was the nationalist obstacle in the way of socialisms eutopia, hence why it has had such a rough ride.
British first, THEN English, Cornish, Welsh, Scottish, European, Ethnic etc.
Divide and conquer. The UK was the nationalist obstacle in the way of socialisms eutopia, hence why it has had such a rough ride.
British first, THEN English, Cornish, Welsh, Scottish, European, Ethnic etc.
AJS- said:
Isn't it time England left the UK?
.
Vote English Democrats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Democrats_Par...
Edited by Halb on Wednesday 12th May 08:40
Over 80% of Scots voted to stay in the union (<20% voted SNP)and in Scotland the tories were actually only about 1% less in vote share than both the libdems and snp. It does show how skewed our voting system is.
The Tory rank and file members need to realise that it's this sort of attitude that stops many Scots voting for them. Accept that Scotland has a very different political and economical climate and stop trying to push them away with blinkered rants and trying to place blame.
The Tory rank and file members need to realise that it's this sort of attitude that stops many Scots voting for them. Accept that Scotland has a very different political and economical climate and stop trying to push them away with blinkered rants and trying to place blame.
It has been said many times that with respect to English attitudes to Scotland, it is not the people of Scotland that we (English) have issues with, it's Scots politicians. Their avaricious attitude, along with their anti-English/Tory rhetoric, influences the Scots people. Consequently, and slowly, the English have begun to react.
It cannot be denied that the Scots/Labour mafia at Westminster have played a blinder in looking after their own. Unfortunately the bubble has burst in their faces with devolution and the subsequent rise of the SNP. Brown had just a small rump of the pre-devolution portfolio left to administer. The fact Scotland had 60 MPs sent to Westminster mainly as lobby fodder to force through English only legislation was a major irritation to many, enlightened English. That still is an outrageous disgrace and an affront to all democratic principles.
England is the last colony of the former British Empire.
It cannot be denied that the Scots/Labour mafia at Westminster have played a blinder in looking after their own. Unfortunately the bubble has burst in their faces with devolution and the subsequent rise of the SNP. Brown had just a small rump of the pre-devolution portfolio left to administer. The fact Scotland had 60 MPs sent to Westminster mainly as lobby fodder to force through English only legislation was a major irritation to many, enlightened English. That still is an outrageous disgrace and an affront to all democratic principles.
England is the last colony of the former British Empire.
Don said:
Well - the Scots got their own assembly. They have home rule - except on matters of overall national import (like Defence). The perception that they are now ruled from Westminster is one that hangs over from the days before the assembly IMO. But I do believe that many Scots have that perception.
The Scots do not vote Tory: which is why IF they believe they are ruled from Westminster by a Tory government it is somewhat unfair.
The English, on the other hand, have voted very Tory on this occasion and mostly Tory in 2005 (not enough that they'd have had a majority in England). In England the Tories would have had a majority this time: no coalition nonsense.
The English had started to feel aggrieved that Scots MPs could vote in the assembly on issues for Scotland and also vote on similar issues in Westminster for England.
An example: they could vote to abolish tuition fees at Scottish universities for Scottish students and then go on to back Labour government policy of tuition fees for English students at any university in the UK.
This is the "West Lothian" question if I've got my West/East right.
In any event something does now need doing about it.
Personally I would like to see Welsh and Scots MPs barred from votes on English only issues - rather than an English Assembly. Make the English MPs do the work they're paid for.
We'll see if anything really gets done. Hard to tell as the Lib Dems might find that unpalatable.
Posted this before - the simple solution is that any MP in Westminster can only vote on issues which affect their own constituency, be it English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish. There will be bills read in Parliament which affect various subsets of these, depending on the specifics of the devolved issues in each devolved assembly, but the generic rule would address the West Lothian/Pembroke/South Down/Oxshott question very nicely...The Scots do not vote Tory: which is why IF they believe they are ruled from Westminster by a Tory government it is somewhat unfair.
The English, on the other hand, have voted very Tory on this occasion and mostly Tory in 2005 (not enough that they'd have had a majority in England). In England the Tories would have had a majority this time: no coalition nonsense.
The English had started to feel aggrieved that Scots MPs could vote in the assembly on issues for Scotland and also vote on similar issues in Westminster for England.
An example: they could vote to abolish tuition fees at Scottish universities for Scottish students and then go on to back Labour government policy of tuition fees for English students at any university in the UK.
This is the "West Lothian" question if I've got my West/East right.
In any event something does now need doing about it.
Personally I would like to see Welsh and Scots MPs barred from votes on English only issues - rather than an English Assembly. Make the English MPs do the work they're paid for.
We'll see if anything really gets done. Hard to tell as the Lib Dems might find that unpalatable.
Don said:
1. The Scots do not vote Tory: which is why IF they believe they are ruled from Westminster by a Tory government it is somewhat unfair.
2. Personally I would like to see Welsh and Scots MPs barred from votes on English only issues - rather than an English Assembly. Make the English MPs do the work they're paid for.
1. Such a stupid statement it is almost not worth answering, however, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/result...2. Personally I would like to see Welsh and Scots MPs barred from votes on English only issues - rather than an English Assembly. Make the English MPs do the work they're paid for.
2. If you did your research, which you have not, you would find that the "real" nationalist party STILL intends to keep their ruling over NOT voting on "English" affairs at Westminister, again it is only the liarbour whips/mp's who keep stirring this/you lot up for their own amusement, because you will find that the large majority of Scots actually agree that "English" affairs are none of their business.
Mojocvh said:
Don said:
1. The Scots do not vote Tory: which is why IF they believe they are ruled from Westminster by a Tory government it is somewhat unfair.
2. Personally I would like to see Welsh and Scots MPs barred from votes on English only issues - rather than an English Assembly. Make the English MPs do the work they're paid for.
1. Such a stupid statement it is almost not worth answering, however, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/result...2. Personally I would like to see Welsh and Scots MPs barred from votes on English only issues - rather than an English Assembly. Make the English MPs do the work they're paid for.
2. If you did your research, which you have not, you would find that the "real" nationalist party STILL intends to keep their ruling over NOT voting on "English" affairs at Westminister, again it is only the liarbour whips/mp's who keep stirring this/you lot up for their own amusement, because you will find that the large majority of Scots actually agree that "English" affairs are none of their business.
and (2)
Which is the *real* nationalist party? I am sure the Scots are happy for the English to govern themselves. I hope the reverse is also true.
el stovey said:
This would be England's first non Labour government since 1997. Lets not pretend it's 'everyone else' who kept voting for Labour.
Due to a decade of gerrymandering boundaries in Labour's favour. At this election 36% got the Tories 20 seats short of a majority. At the same election if Labour had received 36% of the votes they would've had a 60 odd seat majority. . . . . . . .I don't agree that the UK is broken, us Welsh proved that we want to be part of the UK by the votes we cast (same with the Scots). Plaid and SNP bombed out, if we really wanted to go our own way these parties would have had a landslide win in all areas.
I for one get shudders at the thought of Plaid running Wales and taking us down full separation from England. I am a proud Welshman but equally as proud of being British.
I for one get shudders at the thought of Plaid running Wales and taking us down full separation from England. I am a proud Welshman but equally as proud of being British.
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