A question about having the euro currency
Discussion
If we did have the Euro as a currency, would we have to bail out Greece?
What are the benefits? And the downsides? Generally, I mean.
And is it good to be part of the EC? We seem to be throwing a lot of money into a blackhole so clearly I'm missing something important.
I'll thank you in advance for your replies but won't reply as I'm pretty clueless about this stuff so my replies will be largely grunts or "OIC"-type replies.
What are the benefits? And the downsides? Generally, I mean.
And is it good to be part of the EC? We seem to be throwing a lot of money into a blackhole so clearly I'm missing something important.
I'll thank you in advance for your replies but won't reply as I'm pretty clueless about this stuff so my replies will be largely grunts or "OIC"-type replies.
Edited by ShadownINja on Saturday 1st May 12:09
It's like turning your car into a stretch limo. It looks fantastic, gives a smooth ride but as soon as you need manouverability, it gets totally and utterly stuck. Then you can bellyache as much as you like about the hedges being in the wrong place, but in fact you are the stupid one for driving a stretch limo.
The Euro is totally and utterly doomed to fail in it's present guise. The required political and tax hamonisation to facilitate the wideining of the hedges would effectively take the fuel out of the tank. (Think about extra EU finance and how that facilitates the whole thing)
The Euro is totally and utterly doomed to fail in it's present guise. The required political and tax hamonisation to facilitate the wideining of the hedges would effectively take the fuel out of the tank. (Think about extra EU finance and how that facilitates the whole thing)
ShadownINja said:
If we did have the Euro as a currency, would we have to bail out Greece?
What are the benefits? And the downsides? Generally, I mean.
And is it good to be part of the EC? We seem to be throwing a lot of money into a blackhole so clearly I'm missing something important.
We have been bailing out Greece for years, we pay into the EU, they get given the money.What are the benefits? And the downsides? Generally, I mean.
And is it good to be part of the EC? We seem to be throwing a lot of money into a blackhole so clearly I'm missing something important.
You also need to realise that the ECB and the EU are two VERY separate entities.
To understand a currency and the implications of using one from a private central banks such as the ECB you need to watch this history lesson to understand what they are, what they do, and why they charge interest.
The benefit of the Euro is not having to change your money when you go on holiday.
The downsides are:
1) Becoming indebted to a foreign private corporation you have no control over, merely for the 'privilege' of using their bits of paper as currency.
2) Having your money supply controlled by a foreign private corporation.
3) Having no control over interest rates, meaning growth/inflation is beyond your control.
4) Inviting that foreign private corporation to skim off X% of your nations wealth each year.
For all the debt of households, business and govt., there is a balance sheet showing that as credit. Most of that credit is on the balance sheets of the people behind the ECB, like Mandelson's corfu holiday chums The Rothschilds.
Thanks for the extra replies.
Grease, maybe.
Not "Grease".Google greek kebabs. I'm hungry now.
WhoseGeneration said:
ShadownINja said:
I hardly think my monthly kebab purchase can be construed as bailing out Greece. 
Cos, the kebab is nothing to with Greece.Grease, maybe.
Not "Grease".
Edited by ShadownINja on Sunday 2nd May 00:07
There is another, unknowable dimension to this essentially pointless debate: if we had joined the euro at the beginning, then logically and obviously the euro would have a significantly different status and standing than it does today. Would it be stronger? Weaker? We can't know but it is probable that the euro would be much stronger. Would it have benefited the UK - possibly, or possibly not depending whether you were wanting to make money from £ - € exchange; but given that > 50% of our trade is with the eurozone no doubt that in some respects it would have been advantageous (on a personal level, fixed for term mortgage rates of 3% would have been lovely). It is all conjecture of course. One thing is certain however, and that is the concept of sovereignty and financial independence is an illusion.
Edited by Diderot on Monday 3rd May 08:35
Well, when we were doing business from the UK with mainly Eurozone countries, it was a big disadvantage not to have the same currency. The fluctuations made it very painful at times together with getting payments converted into sterling. We left the UK primarily for tha reason and now with the strong Euro, the company is making 20-25% more than it was in the UK without doing anything.
Silver993tt said:
Well, when we were doing business from the UK with mainly Eurozone countries, it was a big disadvantage not to have the same currency. The fluctuations made it very painful at times
It's the difference between the San Andreas fault bumping along easing the tension now and again, and getting pinned for a decade and suddenly letting go.The euro is effectively a currency pin with the money supply issues suiting one country more than another. For years now it has been strangling southern europe and now with Greece it's beginning to rip apart, as it must inevitably do so as the tensions become unbearable.
And for those blaming the Greeks with their cushy lifestyle - bear in mind that they had that for years before the EU and the euro, and happily got on with it without costing us a penny, all the while providing a cheap tourist destination.
Since the EU and euro arrived in Greece the cost of a holiday there shot up and now the people are looking at working longer for less money, there are riots and discontent and we are looking at a bill of 120bn euros.
Since the Greek population neither asked for either the EU or the euro one has to think that they've been royally f
ked over by the instruments of their downfall - the EU and the euro.Do not confuse a strong euro, economic 'growth' (actually this is always debt growth) and standards of living and quality of life. The Greek treatment is now waiting for Portugal, Italy, Spain and possibly Ireland, while also pissing off the Germans to a degree not seen since 1939. As a mechanism to raise tensions in europe the EU and euro have been successful beyond an arms manufacturer's dreams and can only make everyone poor and miserable.
UKIP has seen this - you will see it yourselves as the year progresses, still as long as we get the Tories in power as opposed to the damn communist liberals we'll survive it. If the liberals get the power - god help us all, we'll be right in the middle of a big european punch-up.
How much does the UK get back from the EU in the form of grants etc. ? I was trying to find some numbers the other day but drew a blank.
Here in Norway we bung hundreds of millions to the likes of Poland etc. to trade in the EU / EEC. I too have thought what would happen if we stopped writing cheques.
Here in Norway we bung hundreds of millions to the likes of Poland etc. to trade in the EU / EEC. I too have thought what would happen if we stopped writing cheques.
the difference is that we can 'print money', so when push comes to shove we can pay back our debts (albeit with a devalued currency). greece cant print euros so they are stuffed. if we had been in the euro we'd have been paying roughly 12.5bn euros to this bailout.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politic...
sneijder said:
How much does the UK get back from the EU in the form of grants etc. ? I was trying to find some numbers the other day but drew a blank.
for 2010 the uk will pay the EU 6.4bn pounds net (ie after all grants and rebates) thanks to this government giving away most of our rebatehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politic...
Edited by fbrs on Monday 3rd May 14:08
The Euro is fundamentally flawed.
The basic premise, is safety in numbers. The more countries that are in the better. The idea is that if one area is failing, another area can support it. I say that's fair enough, some people are going to disagree, but bear with it.
At the other end of the scale, people are saying that "safety in numbers" also means that we are more powerful in the globalised world. As a single large entity we can control and direct, in a way that we could not if we were all economically separate.
You can't have both. They are conflicting ideas. If we are a single massive entity in a globalised world, then we all rise and fall together. If we all rise and fall together, then there are no successful regions, to bail out the failing ones.
In my opinion, it makes no difference if the money is the same, or different. What makes a difference is how we behave, how we define our allegiances, how smart we are, and how compassionate we are. This is where we are lacking. Sort these things out and the whole thing gets better. The euro makes no difference one way or another, but the idea that we might embrace it says to me that we are weak and might throw away our identity.
Surely if we throw away our identity, then it is more difficult, not less to be identified for the behaviour, allegiances, brains, and compassion that we choose to display.
The basic premise, is safety in numbers. The more countries that are in the better. The idea is that if one area is failing, another area can support it. I say that's fair enough, some people are going to disagree, but bear with it.
At the other end of the scale, people are saying that "safety in numbers" also means that we are more powerful in the globalised world. As a single large entity we can control and direct, in a way that we could not if we were all economically separate.
You can't have both. They are conflicting ideas. If we are a single massive entity in a globalised world, then we all rise and fall together. If we all rise and fall together, then there are no successful regions, to bail out the failing ones.
In my opinion, it makes no difference if the money is the same, or different. What makes a difference is how we behave, how we define our allegiances, how smart we are, and how compassionate we are. This is where we are lacking. Sort these things out and the whole thing gets better. The euro makes no difference one way or another, but the idea that we might embrace it says to me that we are weak and might throw away our identity.
Surely if we throw away our identity, then it is more difficult, not less to be identified for the behaviour, allegiances, brains, and compassion that we choose to display.
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