The '2 main' parties
Discussion
Politics has never really been a strong point with me,so please bear with me.....
Most of the information on TV and most people I talk to always talk about the '2 main' parties, obviously these being Labour and the Tories.
But what about the Lib Dems?
Now I know that historically either Labour or the Tories have been in power (in fact have always been), and the Lib Dems seem to have been written off already.
But why?
Everyone that I speak to says that a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote, and surely this what both Labour and the Tories want us to believe?
Surely an election is the one time where voting is purely in the hands of the general public, and if more people were to take a stand and vote for someone other than the big 2, then there would surely be a chance for either a hung parliament, or for an historic win for A N other party?
Winky is a no go for me, looking purely at what he has done since becoming PM, and from what I can see, Cameron will just do what the Tories have always done, and tax us until there is nothing left.... as for Winky, he wasn't even bloody elected in the first place (surely if a PM stands down, it should automatically result in a general election?)
OK, Nick Clegg has said that he would raise taxes etc, but from what I can see,at least his sums add up, which is more than can be said for the other two. He also seemed to come across pretty well in the live debate the other day (he certainly seemed the most genuine of them all), where as Winky and Cameron just seemed to have there backs against the wall throughout
So, over to the masses at PH to tell what I'm missing?
Most of the information on TV and most people I talk to always talk about the '2 main' parties, obviously these being Labour and the Tories.
But what about the Lib Dems?
Now I know that historically either Labour or the Tories have been in power (in fact have always been), and the Lib Dems seem to have been written off already.
But why?
Everyone that I speak to says that a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote, and surely this what both Labour and the Tories want us to believe?
Surely an election is the one time where voting is purely in the hands of the general public, and if more people were to take a stand and vote for someone other than the big 2, then there would surely be a chance for either a hung parliament, or for an historic win for A N other party?
Winky is a no go for me, looking purely at what he has done since becoming PM, and from what I can see, Cameron will just do what the Tories have always done, and tax us until there is nothing left.... as for Winky, he wasn't even bloody elected in the first place (surely if a PM stands down, it should automatically result in a general election?)
OK, Nick Clegg has said that he would raise taxes etc, but from what I can see,at least his sums add up, which is more than can be said for the other two. He also seemed to come across pretty well in the live debate the other day (he certainly seemed the most genuine of them all), where as Winky and Cameron just seemed to have there backs against the wall throughout
So, over to the masses at PH to tell what I'm missing?
Superhoop - where do you live? That will tell you what the 2 main parties are for your constituency...
I live in Bath - last time the vote here was approx 45% LibDem, 30% Cons so Labour could be considered a "wasted vote" here... A Labour supporter should vote Lib Dem here to reduce the number of potential Conservative MPs.
I live in Bath - last time the vote here was approx 45% LibDem, 30% Cons so Labour could be considered a "wasted vote" here... A Labour supporter should vote Lib Dem here to reduce the number of potential Conservative MPs.
Superhoop said:
P Cameron will just do what the Tories have always done, and tax us until there is nothing left....
Sorry, you do know that Torys are by nature a party of low taxation dont you, if you are worried about tax then the Liberals really are not for you. People need to look beyond the decent performance of Clegg and look at what Liberals will do to tax,immigration and defence before seeing the man and his party as the second coming
Superhoop said:
Like I said, Politics aren't really a strong point for me, But I am trying to take more of an intrest.... Hence the question.
If I'm wrong, I'd like to know why
As I said in my orginal post, Clegg seems to be the most genuine of the bunch, and if i'm wrong, why?
I know this might come across as a crazy idea, but why not download the manifestos from Lab, Con, LD and any of the minor parties standing in your constituency and read them? It should give you a good idea of what their policies are.If I'm wrong, I'd like to know why
As I said in my orginal post, Clegg seems to be the most genuine of the bunch, and if i'm wrong, why?
Superhoop said:
Politics has never really been a strong point with me,so please bear with me.....
Most of the information on TV and most people I talk to always talk about the '2 main' parties, obviously these being Labour and the Tories.
But what about the Lib Dems?
Now I know that historically either Labour or the Tories have been in power (in fact have always been), and the Lib Dems seem to have been written off already.
But why?
Everyone that I speak to says that a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote, and surely this what both Labour and the Tories want us to believe?
Surely an election is the one time where voting is purely in the hands of the general public, and if more people were to take a stand and vote for someone other than the big 2, then there would surely be a chance for either a hung parliament, or for an historic win for A N other party?
Winky is a no go for me, looking purely at what he has done since becoming PM, and from what I can see, Cameron will just do what the Tories have always done, and tax us until there is nothing left.... as for Winky, he wasn't even bloody elected in the first place (surely if a PM stands down, it should automatically result in a general election?)
OK, Nick Clegg has said that he would raise taxes etc, but from what I can see,at least his sums add up, which is more than can be said for the other two. He also seemed to come across pretty well in the live debate the other day (he certainly seemed the most genuine of them all), where as Winky and Cameron just seemed to have there backs against the wall throughout
So, over to the masses at PH to tell what I'm missing?
Oh great, so another one swayed by his pretty boy performance on Thursday's debate...Most of the information on TV and most people I talk to always talk about the '2 main' parties, obviously these being Labour and the Tories.
But what about the Lib Dems?
Now I know that historically either Labour or the Tories have been in power (in fact have always been), and the Lib Dems seem to have been written off already.
But why?
Everyone that I speak to says that a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote, and surely this what both Labour and the Tories want us to believe?
Surely an election is the one time where voting is purely in the hands of the general public, and if more people were to take a stand and vote for someone other than the big 2, then there would surely be a chance for either a hung parliament, or for an historic win for A N other party?
Winky is a no go for me, looking purely at what he has done since becoming PM, and from what I can see, Cameron will just do what the Tories have always done, and tax us until there is nothing left.... as for Winky, he wasn't even bloody elected in the first place (surely if a PM stands down, it should automatically result in a general election?)
OK, Nick Clegg has said that he would raise taxes etc, but from what I can see,at least his sums add up, which is more than can be said for the other two. He also seemed to come across pretty well in the live debate the other day (he certainly seemed the most genuine of them all), where as Winky and Cameron just seemed to have there backs against the wall throughout
So, over to the masses at PH to tell what I'm missing?
This seems to me where the parties lie.
Labour - Big Government, lots of rules, not worked out how to pay for it
Conservative - Small government and more local running, pro-business owners over workers
Lib Dems - High tax to fund those who do little, everyone equal
The Lib Dems are a mix of Social Democrats (Now all 3 parties) and Liberals (the airy fairies as I like to call them).
All 3 parties core values are exactly the same now.
Labour - Big Government, lots of rules, not worked out how to pay for it
Conservative - Small government and more local running, pro-business owners over workers
Lib Dems - High tax to fund those who do little, everyone equal
The Lib Dems are a mix of Social Democrats (Now all 3 parties) and Liberals (the airy fairies as I like to call them).
All 3 parties core values are exactly the same now.
Edited by elster on Saturday 17th April 12:20
If you want to know who to vote for, find out who you agree with by answering some questions....
http://www.votematch.org.uk/
Two main parties here happen to be Lib Dem and Labour - It would need a 25% swing to labour to unseat the Lib Dem.
http://www.votematch.org.uk/
Two main parties here happen to be Lib Dem and Labour - It would need a 25% swing to labour to unseat the Lib Dem.
Superhoop said:
Like I said, Politics aren't really a strong point for me, But I am trying to take more of an intrest.... Hence the question.
If I'm wrong, I'd like to know why
As I said in my orginal post, Clegg seems to be the most genuine of the bunch, and if i'm wrong, why?
Honestly, do what others suggest and go read the policies and manifestos of the three parties online, then make up your mind. I did and some of the LibDems' policies scare me - I would actually rather have Labour back in again than have the Liberals able to put those into practice.If I'm wrong, I'd like to know why
As I said in my orginal post, Clegg seems to be the most genuine of the bunch, and if i'm wrong, why?
The trouble with any party political system is that there will be aspects of an individual party's policies which you may agree with but there will also be aspects that you do not agree with. In the end, you will probably need to weigh up the merits of each party's policies and decide which one, on balance, matches the things you wish or desire for yourself and for the country.
Of course, if you can actually fathom what the actual policies are, you might be smarter than I am as, from what I can see, there is only one policy that needs to be adopted by any incoming government - savage and swinging cuts to public spending. Nothing else really matters - and they all know it. It's just that they wobn't admit it BEFORE the election.
Look at what is happening in Ireland to see what really needs doing.
The British "first past the post system" can only really sustain a two party system. Before 1918, the Liberals were the main alternative to the Conservatives. It was only after WW1 that Labour took over from the Liberals - mainly due to the sweeping changes that people wanted to see to what had been "traditional" British politics before WW1.
Of course, if you can actually fathom what the actual policies are, you might be smarter than I am as, from what I can see, there is only one policy that needs to be adopted by any incoming government - savage and swinging cuts to public spending. Nothing else really matters - and they all know it. It's just that they wobn't admit it BEFORE the election.
Look at what is happening in Ireland to see what really needs doing.
The British "first past the post system" can only really sustain a two party system. Before 1918, the Liberals were the main alternative to the Conservatives. It was only after WW1 that Labour took over from the Liberals - mainly due to the sweeping changes that people wanted to see to what had been "traditional" British politics before WW1.
Edited by Eric Mc on Saturday 17th April 13:41
Mojocvh said:
Which is what Eric?
A massive reduction in public spending with many public service employees taking significant pay cuts.If the UK was cuting back to the same extent as Ireland, the cutbacks here would be in the order £45 billion.
Taxes have also been increased in Ireland.
Superhoop said:
Now I know that historically either Labour or the Tories have been in power (in fact have always been), and the Lib Dems seem to have been written off already.
But why?
Everyone that I speak to says that a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote, and surely this what both Labour and the Tories want us to believe?
The first bit is simply wrong. Before Labour the Liberals were a "main party". It was in 1929 that Labour overtook them and pushed them into third place.But why?
Everyone that I speak to says that a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote, and surely this what both Labour and the Tories want us to believe?
Why? Because the too main parties offer virtually the same policies and dare not mention the same "elephants in the room". The Liberals are therefore somewhere in the middle of two virtually identical things which makes them a bit irrelevant.
As for wasting votes this is very definitely what the main parties want you to think. All votes (even spoiled ones) are counted and reported. The once powerfull Liberals have been replaced by the Labour party for 80 years exactly because enough people did not think that a vote for another party was wasted (i.e. they voted for the small, new and untried Labour party). If enough people vote for a smaller party then the main parties will do one of two things, they will adopt the policies to try and gain that vote or they will slowly be made extinct as the smaller party grows.
There is no law that there has to be two main parties, there is no law that the parties cannot change to adopt new popular ideas and there is no law that a new party cannot replace either of the current big two if they fail to keep up in this process (just like the once powerful Liberals).
Of course they don't want you to know this!
Superhoop said:
Now I know that historically either Labour or the Tories have been in power (in fact have always been).
No.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministe...
There have been 7 Liberal Prime Ministers and only 6 Labour Prime Ministers. Conservatives have had 15 PMs, Tory have had 10 and Whig had 17 PMs.
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