When did the word "liberal" become a dirty word in the UK?

[Marf]

For years the word "liberal" has been a slur used against those left of centre in the US by those on the right.

It seems that increasingly the term is being used in the UK in similar situations.

This pejorative use of the word liberal by those right of centre has always surprised me, even more so now that its being turned into a loaded word here in the UK.

Its always struck me that the concept of liberalism is an offshoot of right wing politics, i.e. increased autonomy, small government, and personal freedom balanced with stiff punishment for those who step outside the agreed legal boundaries.

I see it being used here by a few posters against anyone who seems to disagree with them in almost the same way that the r-bomb is dropped in discussions about race and immigration, i.e. to stifle debate and try and draw lines in the sand.

What does the word "liberal" mean to you in terms of politics?

Edited by Marf on Sunday 31st January 12:53

[Parrot of Doom]

To me it means exactly what you said, however, there are quite a few posters on here (usually reading the Daily Mail) who have not the first fking idea.

[CommanderJameson]

"Liberal" to me means letting other people do what the hell they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

It's a fked-up world in which "liberal" is any kind of insult at all.

[singlecoil]

I think in the USA 'liberal' is a polite way of saying 'socialist', which is almost as bad as the C word (in both meanings, ie Communist and ).

Knowing the way American ways of speaking are used by many here (the number of times I have seen the word 'hot' when the poster means 'attractive' ) I should imagine it means the same thing here.

[CommanderJameson]

singlecoil said:

I think in the USA 'liberal' is a polite way of saying 'socialist', which is almost as bad as the C word (in both meanings, ie Communist and ).

Knowing the way American ways of speaking are used by many here (the number of times I have seen the word 'hot' when the poster means 'attractive' ) I should imagine it means the same thing here.

I always thought that "liberal" was used by conservative Americans to denote people outside the religious right/moral majority/whatever you want to call them.

[Johnnytheboy]

The classic Victorian definition of 'liberal' is more likely to be called 'libertarian' nowadays.

One only has to look at the policies of the Libdems to realise they do not stand for classic liberalism any more.

[KANEIT]

I think people are being conditioned to associate the term liberal with weakness.

[Tangent Police]

When did the word "liberal" become a dirty word in the UK?

When the context of it's use went from being regarding the individual to that of the community. Community rights, inclusion, diversity AT THE EXPENSE of those of the individual.

Liberal is a fantastic word, philosophy and basis for a lot of politics. It's communitarian perversion is not!

[Halb]

Marf said:

I see it being used here by a few posters against anyone who seems to disagree with them in almost the same way that the r-bomb is dropped in discussions about race and immigration, i.e. to stifle debate and try and draw lines in the sand.

What does the word "liberal" mean to you in terms of politics?

Because people here cannot distinguish that we have very different traditions in this parliamentary democracy. Like saying GB is unelected

Liberal to me is freedom. We cannot have complete freedom though because it would be a state of anarchy and chaos. But I think a good place to start is not to kill/hurt and not to incite others to kill/hurt.
I think of myself as liberal and always try to reach my opinion on things from that starting point. As opposed to preconceived ideas.

[LD1Racing]

Look up an LSE podcast called "Liberal Fascism: The uses and abuses of the F-word" by Jonah Goldberg for a pretty good lecture on why liberal is a dirty word, especially across the pond. You'll find it on iTunes if you're interested.

[anonymous-user]

Halb said:

Because people here cannot distinguish that we have very different traditions in this parliamentary democracy. Like saying GB is unelected.

Liberal to me is freedom. We cannot have complete freedom though because it would be a state of anarchy and chaos. But I think a good place to start is not to kill/hurt and not to incite others to kill/hurt.
I think of myself as liberal and always try to reach my opinion on things from that starting point. As opposed to preconceived ideas.

The issue of Brown being elected is a relative one and the argument that the PM is not directly elected, as a President would be, is germane. However it is reasonable to assume that many people cast a vote in the general election out of a desire to see a party elected (as opposed simply to elect their own MP) and the leadership of that party is very relevant to the vote making process. I would suggest that there are many who would not have cast their vote in favour of Labour had they known that Brown would be PM in 2 years (Blair had promised to serve a "full term"). I therefore think it is legitimate for people to consider Brown to be unelected in the sense that Labour votes were not cast with him at the helm. It is probably an argument more legitimately articulated by Labour voters than most on here though...

The word Liberal in British politics has unfortunately been hijacked by the liberal democrats, who are anything but liberal. True liberals would be better described as Libertarians as has previously been mentioned.

All IMHO.

[singlecoil]

CommanderJameson said:

singlecoil said:

I think in the USA 'liberal' is a polite way of saying 'socialist', which is almost as bad as the C word (in both meanings, ie Communist and ).

Knowing the way American ways of speaking are used by many here (the number of times I have seen the word 'hot' when the poster means 'attractive' ) I should imagine it means the same thing here.

I always thought that "liberal" was used by conservative Americans to denote people outside the religious right/moral majority/whatever you want to call them.

Same thing, Shirley?

[CommanderJameson]

singlecoil said:

CommanderJameson said:

singlecoil said:

I think in the USA 'liberal' is a polite way of saying 'socialist', which is almost as bad as the C word (in both meanings, ie Communist and ).

Knowing the way American ways of speaking are used by many here (the number of times I have seen the word 'hot' when the poster means 'attractive' ) I should imagine it means the same thing here.

I always thought that "liberal" was used by conservative Americans to denote people outside the religious right/moral majority/whatever you want to call them.

Same thing, Shirley?

Not necessarily. I'm hardly a conservative WASP, but I'm not a socialist, either.

I think that there is a (possibly stereotypical) perception that American politics boils down to lefties vs. righties (Dems/GOPs) and that if you're not one of us, you're one of THEM.

This rigidly bipartite view of politics is excessively simplistic, in my opinion.

[singlecoil]

CommanderJameson said:

singlecoil said:

CommanderJameson said:

singlecoil said:

I think in the USA 'liberal' is a polite way of saying 'socialist', which is almost as bad as the C word (in both meanings, ie Communist and ).

Knowing the way American ways of speaking are used by many here (the number of times I have seen the word 'hot' when the poster means 'attractive' ) I should imagine it means the same thing here.

I always thought that "liberal" was used by conservative Americans to denote people outside the religious right/moral majority/whatever you want to call them.

Same thing, Shirley?

Not necessarily. I'm hardly a conservative WASP, but I'm not a socialist, either.

I think that there is a (possibly stereotypical) perception that American politics boils down to lefties vs. righties (Dems/GOPs) and that if you're not one of us, you're one of THEM.

This rigidly bipartite view of politics is excessively simplistic, in my opinion.

As American as apple pie!

[anonymous-user]

LD1Racing said:

Look up an LSE podcast called "Liberal Fascism: The uses and abuses of the F-word" by Jonah Goldberg for a pretty good lecture on why liberal is a dirty word, especially across the pond. You'll find it on iTunes if you're interested.

That's a very interesting book, I've recommended it to several friends who have left leaning views. Haven't had any feedback yet though...

[V8mate]

'liberal' = liberatarian
'Liberal' = illiberal.

[Halb]

unrepentant said:

The issue of Brown being elected is a relative one and the argument that the PM is not directly elected, as a President would be, is germane.

It's not germane. Fact is we don't elect PMs. Somebody put a list up before of just how many PMs we have had that were not party leader at election time, it was considerable.
edit I'll add that 'personality' politics wasn't so common in the UK, and very common in the US one upon a time. It is now increasing in the UK as we ape the US more. Attacks on candidates rather than policy, spin over substance, form over functionality. I think it has grown with the presidential style of PMship that TB gave us...and I don't see us reclaiming what is being lost with Dave Cameron, and the X-Factor generation....sadly enough

unrepentant said:

The word Liberal in British politics has unfortunately been hijacked by the liberal democrats, who are anything but liberal. True liberals would be better described as Libertarians as has previously been mentioned.

They hardly did that. Liberal can have many meanings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
Edit again, and I shall proly add can be the most widely used of political monikers!

Edited by Halb on Sunday 31st January 16:19

[odyssey2200]

This might have started the rot:

John Jeremy Thorpe (born 29 April 1929) is a British politician, who was leader of the Liberal Party from 1967 to 1976. He lost his position, as well as his seat in Parliament, after he was accused of conspiring to murder a man who claimed to be a former lover, of which charges he was acquitted.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Thorpe

[WhoseGeneration]

No one knows what the word means anymore?
Then, we are now so disparate in our views, such that, as exhibited here, many can be "liberal" in some areas yet, "conservative" in others.
Simple definition of an individual's stance is no longer easy.
Partly why there are problems in the political arena.

[Fort Jefferson]

CommanderJameson said:

"Liberal" to me means letting other people do what the hell they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

"Liberal" to me means letting other people do what the hell they want, even if it dose harm someone else.