Panorama Now -

[thinfourth2]

No

[Shaw Tarse]

Nor me!

[Westy Pre-Lit]

Bit late now

[peterpeter]

I did, it was sickening.

much better to watch gordon ramsey helping to cook a goat biryani. less depressing.

[5unny]

Religious nutters the lot of them.

Quite a sad state of affairs but unless they can take God out of the picture there shall never be a peaceful two state solution. Both sides see themselves as God's chosen people who can do no wrong and see the other side as sinners who the big white bearded man in the sky doesnt like.

Edited by 5unny on Monday 18th January 21:57

[Jalopnik]

peterpeter said:

much better to watch gordon ramsey helping to cook a goat biryani.

Or stalling his Royal Enfield twice in a row at a level crossing (well, this is Pistonheads!)

[AndrewW-G]

Could somebody please sumarise what it was about.....................all I know is that I should have watched it, both sides have a different sky daddy and whilst his curry may be good, Ramsey has been havign difficulty with his motorbike!

[5unny]

AndrewW-G said:

Could somebody please sumarise what it was about.....................all I know is that I should have watched it, both sides have a different sky daddy and whilst his curry may be good, Ramsey has been havign difficulty with his motorbike!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_8447000/8447147.stm

[Mr_B]

AndrewW-G said:

Could somebody please sumarise what it was about.....................all I know is that I should have watched it, both sides have a different sky daddy and whilst his curry may be good, Ramsey has been havign difficulty with his motorbike!

Two groups of people want to kill each other in the name of their backward religion

[cymtriks]

5unny said:

Religious nutters the lot of them.

Quite a sad state of affairs but unless they can take God out of the picture there shall never be a peaceful two state solution. Both sides see themselves as God's chosen people who can do no wrong and see the other side as sinners who the big white bearded man in the sky doesnt like.

Nonsense. Religion is not the cause of this, or of any other conflict.

Religion is just a convenient rallying call and excuse to hide behind. It is also a nice easy pigeon hole to use when getting to the root of a conflict involves too much understanding of a region's history for a typical news story.

Can you identify a single religious conflict that does not have a political, racial/tribal, economic or territorial issue at it's root?

[cymtriks]

Mr_B said:

Two groups of people want to kill each other in the name of their backward religion

No, that is not what it is about.

Isreal is consolidating its conquests by removing or coraling the conquered people.

The two sides use religion as a means to emphasise their differences and promote solidarity within their own ranks, that's all.

[AndrewW-G]

5unny said:

AndrewW-G said:

Could somebody please sumarise what it was about.....................all I know is that I should have watched it, both sides have a different sky daddy and whilst his curry may be good, Ramsey has been havign difficulty with his motorbike!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_8447000/8447147.stm

Thanks, same old Israel V palastine nonesense then

[Northern Munkee]

AndrewW-G said:

Could somebody please sumarise what it was about.....................all I know is that I should have watched it, both sides have a different sky daddy and whilst his curry may be good, Ramsey has been havign difficulty with his motorbike!

Caught the last 10mins, covered similar depressing ground as the Ross Kemp two docs the other week.

So I've watched it all, yep nothing more than religious nationalism of fundamentalist settlers...

So watch it again

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pznkh/Pano...

I challenge anyone not to be gloomily depressed, and not come away thinking that both Israelis and Palestinians are doomed to continue their cycles of violence, which will drag them, and all of us down with them by degree, as this conflict's impact now stretches across the world and goes on and on...

There are nutters on both sides, and they haven't yet sickened off the quiet majority enough yet, who just want to get on with their lives, in peace, in trade, etc. so that some form exhausted reproachment begins, like in Northern Ireland/Ulster which has finally started even if that is shaky. And this conflict is much worse, and much deeper and much more complicated, unlike NI, a little problem in comparison, the Israeli/Palestinian issue extends across the region and the globe that external forces won't allow or force an equitable peace.

Telling interview with an Israeli lawyer, almost certainly a secular "normal" Israeli, as opposed to the jewish fundamentalists engaged in their idealogically driven land grab, and to create enough "facts on the ground", by using "law" to their ends to grab it all, by constructively making palestinian life untenable. It's so depressing, as he said no peace in Jerusalem, no peace in the region.

IMHO you can join dots from post WW2 to where we are now in Iraq and Afghan, via US led western cold war foreign policy toward the Soviet bloc, and that we won't see a wider peace with the muslim arab world until an equitable peaceful settlement is found between, and to make, a viable Palestinian and Israeli states.

Edited by Northern Munkee on Monday 18th January 22:40

Edited to correct some dodgy grammar.

Edited by Northern Munkee on Monday 18th January 23:10

[CivicMan]

I thought Ross Kemps programmes were excellent - showed how a minority 10% on BOTH sides are really fking things up for the other 90% on BOTH sides who want to live in peace.

There is no answer to this situation.