Google ends censorship of search results in China
Discussion
Very interesting developments going on here.. Google GMail users who are thought to be human rights activists have been the subject of sophisticated attacks originating in China. It's not known whether the Chinese Government is behind it, but when a company like Google says an attack is 'sophisticated beyond the level we would normally expect', it's quite a major thing.
I suspect this will have significant repercussions tomorrow, specifically with US/Chinese diplomacy being tested..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/69776...
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approac...
"Like many other well-known organizations, we face cyber attacks of varying degrees on a regular basis. In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google. However, it soon became clear that what at first appeared to be solely a security incident--albeit a significant one--was something quite different.
First, this attack was not just on Google. As part of our investigation we have discovered that at least twenty other large companies from a wide range of businesses--including the Internet, finance, technology, media and chemical sectors--have been similarly targeted. We are currently in the process of notifying those companies, and we are also working with the relevant U.S. authorities.
Second, we have evidence to suggest that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. Based on our investigation to date we believe their attack did not achieve that objective. Only two Gmail accounts appear to have been accessed, and that activity was limited to account information (such as the date the account was created) and subject line, rather than the content of emails themselves.
Third, as part of this investigation but independent of the attack on Google, we have discovered that the accounts of dozens of U.S.-, China- and Europe-based Gmail users who are advocates of human rights in China appear to have been routinely accessed by third parties. These accounts have not been accessed through any security breach at Google, but most likely via phishing scams or malware placed on the users' computers.
We have already used information gained from this attack to make infrastructure and architectural improvements that enhance security for Google and for our users. In terms of individual users, we would advise people to deploy reputable anti-virus and anti-spyware programs on their computers, to install patches for their operating systems and to update their web browsers. Always be cautious when clicking on links appearing in instant messages and emails, or when asked to share personal information like passwords online. You can read more here about our cyber-security recommendations. People wanting to learn more about these kinds of attacks can read this U.S. government report (PDF), Nart Villeneuve's blog and this presentation on the GhostNet spying incident.
We have taken the unusual step of sharing information about these attacks with a broad audience not just because of the security and human rights implications of what we have unearthed, but also because this information goes to the heart of a much bigger global debate about freedom of speech. In the last two decades, China's economic reform programs and its citizens' entrepreneurial flair have lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese people out of poverty. Indeed, this great nation is at the heart of much economic progress and development in the world today.
We launched Google.cn in January 2006 in the belief that the benefits of increased access to information for people in China and a more open Internet outweighed our discomfort in agreeing to censor some results. At the time we made clear that "we will carefully monitor conditions in China, including new laws and other restrictions on our services. If we determine that we are unable to achieve the objectives outlined we will not hesitate to reconsider our approach to China."
These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered--combined with the attempts over the past year to further limit free speech on the web--have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of our business operations in China. We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China.
The decision to review our business operations in China has been incredibly hard, and we know that it will have potentially far-reaching consequences. We want to make clear that this move was driven by our executives in the United States, without the knowledge or involvement of our employees in China who have worked incredibly hard to make Google.cn the success it is today. We are committed to working responsibly to resolve the very difficult issues raised.
Posted by David Drummond, SVP, Corporate Development and Chief Legal Officer"
I suspect this will have significant repercussions tomorrow, specifically with US/Chinese diplomacy being tested..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/69776...
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approac...
"Like many other well-known organizations, we face cyber attacks of varying degrees on a regular basis. In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google. However, it soon became clear that what at first appeared to be solely a security incident--albeit a significant one--was something quite different.
First, this attack was not just on Google. As part of our investigation we have discovered that at least twenty other large companies from a wide range of businesses--including the Internet, finance, technology, media and chemical sectors--have been similarly targeted. We are currently in the process of notifying those companies, and we are also working with the relevant U.S. authorities.
Second, we have evidence to suggest that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. Based on our investigation to date we believe their attack did not achieve that objective. Only two Gmail accounts appear to have been accessed, and that activity was limited to account information (such as the date the account was created) and subject line, rather than the content of emails themselves.
Third, as part of this investigation but independent of the attack on Google, we have discovered that the accounts of dozens of U.S.-, China- and Europe-based Gmail users who are advocates of human rights in China appear to have been routinely accessed by third parties. These accounts have not been accessed through any security breach at Google, but most likely via phishing scams or malware placed on the users' computers.
We have already used information gained from this attack to make infrastructure and architectural improvements that enhance security for Google and for our users. In terms of individual users, we would advise people to deploy reputable anti-virus and anti-spyware programs on their computers, to install patches for their operating systems and to update their web browsers. Always be cautious when clicking on links appearing in instant messages and emails, or when asked to share personal information like passwords online. You can read more here about our cyber-security recommendations. People wanting to learn more about these kinds of attacks can read this U.S. government report (PDF), Nart Villeneuve's blog and this presentation on the GhostNet spying incident.
We have taken the unusual step of sharing information about these attacks with a broad audience not just because of the security and human rights implications of what we have unearthed, but also because this information goes to the heart of a much bigger global debate about freedom of speech. In the last two decades, China's economic reform programs and its citizens' entrepreneurial flair have lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese people out of poverty. Indeed, this great nation is at the heart of much economic progress and development in the world today.
We launched Google.cn in January 2006 in the belief that the benefits of increased access to information for people in China and a more open Internet outweighed our discomfort in agreeing to censor some results. At the time we made clear that "we will carefully monitor conditions in China, including new laws and other restrictions on our services. If we determine that we are unable to achieve the objectives outlined we will not hesitate to reconsider our approach to China."
These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered--combined with the attempts over the past year to further limit free speech on the web--have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of our business operations in China. We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China.
The decision to review our business operations in China has been incredibly hard, and we know that it will have potentially far-reaching consequences. We want to make clear that this move was driven by our executives in the United States, without the knowledge or involvement of our employees in China who have worked incredibly hard to make Google.cn the success it is today. We are committed to working responsibly to resolve the very difficult issues raised.
Posted by David Drummond, SVP, Corporate Development and Chief Legal Officer"
Edited by Funk on Thursday 14th January 00:19
This was a card laid down by the GOOGLE post outside the Chinese office of Google. Literally it read Google is a truly man,which meant Goolge had the balls.
Right now it seems that Google China has lifted the censorship imposed by the Chinese government on the sensitive information. The Chinese internet users can search freely as I am typing those words now, like Tiananmen Square.
Well done Google!
It's worth remembering that only a few weeks ago it was revealed that our Labour government has been considering internet censorship...of course they'll start with material that most would agree we shouldn't look at - for 'terrorism' or 'security' purposes and so on...thin end of a wedge perhaps? 
Tangent Police said:
I don't believe that censoring teh interweb is possible.
The only way you could effectively do it is by big punishments for use of proxy sites, etc.
The nerds will always be one step ahead of the gument
It is, I had many regular sites I could visit freely outside of the UK blocked whilst living in China, including this one!The only way you could effectively do it is by big punishments for use of proxy sites, etc.
The nerds will always be one step ahead of the gument
shakotan said:
Tangent Police said:
I don't believe that censoring teh interweb is possible.
The only way you could effectively do it is by big punishments for use of proxy sites, etc.
The nerds will always be one step ahead of the gument
It is, I had many regular sites I could visit freely outside of the UK blocked whilst living in China, including this one!The only way you could effectively do it is by big punishments for use of proxy sites, etc.
The nerds will always be one step ahead of the gument
Edited by glazbagun on Wednesday 13th January 16:02
shakotan said:
Tangent Police said:
I don't believe that censoring teh interweb is possible.
The only way you could effectively do it is by big punishments for use of proxy sites, etc.
The nerds will always be one step ahead of the gument
It is, I had many regular sites I could visit freely outside of the UK blocked whilst living in China, including this one!The only way you could effectively do it is by big punishments for use of proxy sites, etc.
The nerds will always be one step ahead of the gument
My sister works in Shanghai, and she was told that Facebook was banned before she got there, so it was a pleasant surprise that she does have access now. It seems you can work round the rules to some extent - i'm glad Google has taken this stand and hope other big companies will follow - because the rules need clarification and China needs to stop being so paranoid.
The censorship problem isn't just China, the UK does it too.
I used to be associated with a site called roguesci. It was a forum for chemistry information.
Suddenly it couldn't be accesed from the UK or Germany. The site was US based. I called my ISP and after much lying by the technical guy he passed me onto his management. That guy tried lying too.
Finally after repeating he could see the site was down I caught him.
I was logged on via another means on a second computer linked to an overseas ISP. He's looking at the site, swearing its not there and I'm changing it's content, repeating his words.
Eventually he confessed they'd blocked it as a result of 'official pressure'
Eventually the site had to be shut down.
Or did it
I used to be associated with a site called roguesci. It was a forum for chemistry information.
Suddenly it couldn't be accesed from the UK or Germany. The site was US based. I called my ISP and after much lying by the technical guy he passed me onto his management. That guy tried lying too.
Finally after repeating he could see the site was down I caught him.
I was logged on via another means on a second computer linked to an overseas ISP. He's looking at the site, swearing its not there and I'm changing it's content, repeating his words.
Eventually he confessed they'd blocked it as a result of 'official pressure'
Eventually the site had to be shut down.
Or did it
I'm using my mates T-mobile modem at the moment and it has built in minor protection filtering. Whilst I can accept most of the stuff it rejects, I can't access YouTube as it's "unmoderated user provided content" for instance, the most bizarre piece of censorship is www.twinings.co.uk. I didn't realise tea was inappropriate for under 18s.
GCHQ.Uncle Fester said:
The censorship problem isn't just China, the UK does it too.
I used to be associated with a site called roguesci. It was a forum for chemistry information.
Suddenly it couldn't be accesed from the UK or Germany. The site was US based. I called my ISP and after much lying by the technical guy he passed me onto his management. That guy tried lying too.
Finally after repeating he could see the site was down I caught him.
I was logged on via another means on a second computer linked to an overseas ISP. He's looking at the site, swearing its not there and I'm changing it's content, repeating his words.
Eventually he confessed they'd blocked it as a result of 'official pressure'
Eventually the site had to be shut down.
Or did it
Try booking a holiday in Cuba on www.expedia.co.ukI used to be associated with a site called roguesci. It was a forum for chemistry information.
Suddenly it couldn't be accesed from the UK or Germany. The site was US based. I called my ISP and after much lying by the technical guy he passed me onto his management. That guy tried lying too.
Finally after repeating he could see the site was down I caught him.
I was logged on via another means on a second computer linked to an overseas ISP. He's looking at the site, swearing its not there and I'm changing it's content, repeating his words.
Eventually he confessed they'd blocked it as a result of 'official pressure'
Eventually the site had to be shut down.
Or did it
Uncle Fester said:
The censorship problem isn't just China, the UK does it too.
I used to be associated with a site called roguesci. It was a forum for chemistry information.
Suddenly it couldn't be accesed from the UK or Germany. The site was US based. I called my ISP and after much lying by the technical guy he passed me onto his management. That guy tried lying too.
Finally after repeating he could see the site was down I caught him.
I was logged on via another means on a second computer linked to an overseas ISP. He's looking at the site, swearing its not there and I'm changing it's content, repeating his words.
Eventually he confessed they'd blocked it as a result of 'official pressure'
Eventually the site had to be shut down.
Or did it
That's awful. Was a reason given? Were you giving recipes for bombs?I used to be associated with a site called roguesci. It was a forum for chemistry information.
Suddenly it couldn't be accesed from the UK or Germany. The site was US based. I called my ISP and after much lying by the technical guy he passed me onto his management. That guy tried lying too.
Finally after repeating he could see the site was down I caught him.
I was logged on via another means on a second computer linked to an overseas ISP. He's looking at the site, swearing its not there and I'm changing it's content, repeating his words.
Eventually he confessed they'd blocked it as a result of 'official pressure'
Eventually the site had to be shut down.
Or did it
What other sites are being banned? Is there a list?
Halb said:
Uncle Fester said:
The censorship problem isn't just China, the UK does it too.
I used to be associated with a site called roguesci. It was a forum for chemistry information.
Suddenly it couldn't be accesed from the UK or Germany. The site was US based. I called my ISP and after much lying by the technical guy he passed me onto his management. That guy tried lying too.
Finally after repeating he could see the site was down I caught him.
I was logged on via another means on a second computer linked to an overseas ISP. He's looking at the site, swearing its not there and I'm changing it's content, repeating his words.
Eventually he confessed they'd blocked it as a result of 'official pressure'
Eventually the site had to be shut down.
Or did it
That's awful. Was a reason given? Were you giving recipes for bombs?I used to be associated with a site called roguesci. It was a forum for chemistry information.
Suddenly it couldn't be accesed from the UK or Germany. The site was US based. I called my ISP and after much lying by the technical guy he passed me onto his management. That guy tried lying too.
Finally after repeating he could see the site was down I caught him.
I was logged on via another means on a second computer linked to an overseas ISP. He's looking at the site, swearing its not there and I'm changing it's content, repeating his words.
Eventually he confessed they'd blocked it as a result of 'official pressure'
Eventually the site had to be shut down.
Or did it
What other sites are being banned? Is there a list?
It wasn't a 'recipe for bombs' as such, but explosives were up for discussion.
However, the posting guidelines and moderation were tight. Any posts asking for advice that was low grade knowledge got you band, or worse. Good experimental technique is important and explosives aren't the best things to learn on. Unless you had understanding to at least an 'A-level chemistry standard, forget it. Then had to have researched the question AND found the answer not generally in the literature. Then help would be provided.
If you were a potential terrorist then you either lacked the knowledge to get helped, or already knew enough not to need the help.
Terrorists can draw upon support from their own organization or sympathetic academics and military experts. They're unlikely to draw attention by using a site run by pro US/UK people.
Anyone suspicious would be quietly flagged up to the authorities anyway.
The occasional idiot made an appearance. One new member, in his first post asked 'where could he buy an illegal gun in his area?' We obliged him with names of a couple of Police Detectives local to him. We assured him they were corrupt and selling seized weapons from Police stores. AFAIK the names were two honest cops. Either he got the message, got lucky and found two corrupt cops, or he walked into the office of two honest cops with some cash and attempted to bribe them to hand over a gun.
Either way he never logged in again.
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