Public sector 'still expects raises despite recession'
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8425701.stm
BBC said:
Most public sector workers are still expecting a pay rise in 2010, despite the impending clampdown on earnings in the sector, a survey has found.
Outside of the Nurses, Police, Firemen, Teachers and Doctors ... what meaningful job to most of the public service employed people do to even deserve to be employed let alone get a pay rise?They are living in cloud cookoo land then. I would imagine there will be a blood bath in the public sector come June / July next year as the new government tries to get UK PLC back on an even keel.
We can but hope - and i don't mean that i have a grudge for anyone working in that sector. It needs to be done.
We can but hope - and i don't mean that i have a grudge for anyone working in that sector. It needs to be done.
Where would people rather the current public sector employees work? Or should they be on benefits? Yes, it would be lovely to have a load of work in manufacturing industry but that ship has sailed for the moment. Most public sector employees are not the top few % of potential workers (there are some gems but plenty of dross), so where do you recommend they work?
As for 2010 pay awards, wait until after the election...
As for 2010 pay awards, wait until after the election...
It's like the 70s all over with the Public sector taking the Unions' role!
The Unions believed that the "man" could always afford more, despite working for virtually bankrupt organisations.
The BA cabin crew believe that BA has unlimited cash (ya know, cause all companies do!), despite the company being virtually bankrupt.
The Public sector, like our underclass, believe that the "gubberment" has a magic money tree (which they sort of do right now; QE) to pay them more and more and more, despite the country being virtually bankrupt.
Ultimately, the common theme that runs through all these illustrations is that those demanding extra money are, frankly, morons. Economically illiterate morons. They live in the land of the fairies. They have no idea where money comes from or how it is created. Combine this with a ludicrously high sense of self worth regarding their jobs and we end up in this mess.
Spoiled children act in this way. The only answer is a dose of tought-love.
The Unions believed that the "man" could always afford more, despite working for virtually bankrupt organisations.
The BA cabin crew believe that BA has unlimited cash (ya know, cause all companies do!), despite the company being virtually bankrupt.
The Public sector, like our underclass, believe that the "gubberment" has a magic money tree (which they sort of do right now; QE) to pay them more and more and more, despite the country being virtually bankrupt.
Ultimately, the common theme that runs through all these illustrations is that those demanding extra money are, frankly, morons. Economically illiterate morons. They live in the land of the fairies. They have no idea where money comes from or how it is created. Combine this with a ludicrously high sense of self worth regarding their jobs and we end up in this mess.
Spoiled children act in this way. The only answer is a dose of tought-love.
ewenm said:
Where would people rather the current public sector employees work? Or should they be on benefits? Yes, it would be lovely to have a load of work in manufacturing industry but that ship has sailed for the moment. Most public sector employees are not the top few % of potential workers (there are some gems but plenty of dross), so where do you recommend they work?
Many are getting salaries in excess of what they would earn in the private sector given their skills and abilities - which is the issue.If someone is "skilled enough" to only be a shelf stacker on £5.50 an hour, why are they earning double that working for the DVLA in Swansea etc.
I prefer to have people employed rather than be on benefits, but that employment should not give them better money, out of the taxpayers pocket, than they would have got out in the real world for their skills.
Pay them what their skillset is worth, but increase the money as they learn new things though working (thus improve their skillset).
rypt said:
If someone is "skilled enough" to only be a shelf stacker on £5.50 an hour, why are they earning double that working for the DVLA in Swansea etc.
I prefer to have people employed rather than be on benefits, but that employment should not give them better money, out of the taxpayers pocket, than they would have got out in the real world for their skills.
Why bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator? The shelf stackers should be paid more. Imagine a traditional family with the bloke on minumum wage and the wife not working - they'd be getting a load of benefits so the taxpayer is subsidising his employer. Is that right?I prefer to have people employed rather than be on benefits, but that employment should not give them better money, out of the taxpayers pocket, than they would have got out in the real world for their skills.
Of course they still think they should get a payrise.
The recession was caused by greedy bankers.
A lot of public money has been given to the greedy bankers.
The cost of a 'reasonable' payrise for 'hardworking' public sector is peanuts compared to this.
This is how most of them feel.
No, I am not one of them, but unfortunately most of my family are Guardian reading lentilists doing made-up jobs for (increasingly) good money (+ pensions natch) in the public sector.
The recession was caused by greedy bankers.
A lot of public money has been given to the greedy bankers.
The cost of a 'reasonable' payrise for 'hardworking' public sector is peanuts compared to this.
This is how most of them feel.
No, I am not one of them, but unfortunately most of my family are Guardian reading lentilists doing made-up jobs for (increasingly) good money (+ pensions natch) in the public sector.
Guam said:
Deva Link said:
rypt said:
If someone is "skilled enough" to only be a shelf stacker on £5.50 an hour, why are they earning double that working for the DVLA in Swansea etc.
I prefer to have people employed rather than be on benefits, but that employment should not give them better money, out of the taxpayers pocket, than they would have got out in the real world for their skills.
Why bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator? The shelf stackers should be paid more. Imagine a traditional family with the bloke on minumum wage and the wife not working - they'd be getting a load of benefits so the taxpayer is subsidising his employer. Is that right?I prefer to have people employed rather than be on benefits, but that employment should not give them better money, out of the taxpayers pocket, than they would have got out in the real world for their skills.
Doesnt work I am afraid, life is unfair there will always be the rich and the poor sentiment is fine reality is however, you cannot redress the balance, communism tried and failed>
Time to wake up and smell the reality that is human existence and stop trying for some idyll that caan never be achieved imho!
Bri957 said:
Agree with Deva Link.
We still have another year to run of a three year pay deal, so will get 2% plus a band rise of 3%. All based upon good performance.
On one hand I'd ask whether you think, in the current financial mess, you can justify that deal? We still have another year to run of a three year pay deal, so will get 2% plus a band rise of 3%. All based upon good performance.
Edited by Bri957 on Tuesday 22 December 12:28
On the other, I don't want it to change because we're halfway through testing the code for the 2010 MoD Pay Award and renegotiations now will just cause months of hassle and we've all got more important things to be doing.
Bri957 said:
Personally if I was in charge, I'd cancel the deal.
In reality, as an employee I'm going to not complain, especially as it compensates for the sub inflation rises we had over the previous years.
In reality, it doesn't make a difference when the deal was agreed or how well intentioned (or not) it was - if the cash is no longer there, then the country can ill afford it. In reality, as an employee I'm going to not complain, especially as it compensates for the sub inflation rises we had over the previous years.
Aside from the inevetable fact that the stewardship of 'other poeple's money' is notoroiusly lax, out finances have taken a massive turn for the worse. Public sector workers might winge, but they are (mostly) far better off than private sector workers who have taken cuts in [ay/hours or redundancy on the chin.
Bri957 said:
Personally if I was in charge, I'd cancel the deal.
...
If we had a PM with balls the entire public sector would be made redundant apart from the police, army / national guard (and people who service the tanks if they were state employed as we'd need them for running over protestors). ...
Everyone would then reapply for their jobs minus final salary pension. Public sector pay rises to be inline with GBP growth, not "inflation"!
Its understandable enough. They see massive bonuses still being given out to bankers despite the public ownership.
In effect these backs are public sector, so if they are getting big christmas bonuses why shouldn't they.
I have never understood why private sector workers believe themselves to be the actual essential workers, and public sector workers a race of okay if we are doing well as a country but not actually needed and ripe for removal if money is lacking.
I suggest in a recesssion at least as many public sector jobs will go same as private. I also suspect public sector pensions are the reason most public sector workers agree to work in the public sector rather than earn more money working in the private.
Its just after a while of private sector working you don't see that as an initial choice anymore and you think of public sector works as failed private sector workers.
In effect these backs are public sector, so if they are getting big christmas bonuses why shouldn't they.
I have never understood why private sector workers believe themselves to be the actual essential workers, and public sector workers a race of okay if we are doing well as a country but not actually needed and ripe for removal if money is lacking.
I suggest in a recesssion at least as many public sector jobs will go same as private. I also suspect public sector pensions are the reason most public sector workers agree to work in the public sector rather than earn more money working in the private.
Its just after a while of private sector working you don't see that as an initial choice anymore and you think of public sector works as failed private sector workers.
TimJMS said:
eldar said:
Interestingly, winky doesn't want public servants to have pay rises.
Except, of course MPs, who will be voting themselves more.
Can't blame people for following our glorious leaders example.
Errr I thought they'd all just taken a pay cut, or was that b0llocks as well? Except, of course MPs, who will be voting themselves more.
Can't blame people for following our glorious leaders example.
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