Has Science been devalued?

[Greg_D]

Are scientists being corrupted by outside influences and sponsors demands? the end result of which is public distrust of anything that they say.

My observation is that scientists seem to Hype any and all threats up to Defcon 5
(Sars, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, MMGW (Ducks and covers!!!) being a couple of examples that spring to mind) with prophecies of doom and end of the world scenarios being bandied around with gay abandon.

As a separate thing, are the media just manipulating their output, or is the scientific output itself generally dubious?

the more serious connotation is that (as mentioned on another thread) when something genuinely terrifying hoves over the horizon, the general populace will ignore it as yet another load of scaremongering.

Greg

[G_T]

With the exception of MMGW I think every one of your examples is the media. Even the "coming Ice age" was basically just mass hysteria.

There's fk all wrong with the scientific method it's just a massive misunderstanding about it's limitations in the wider community.

The only think scientists are guilty of is not making things easy for the masses to comprehend.

[FarleyRusk]

I expect scientific research has always potentially been dishonest (who pays the piper and all that) Only now is it becoming visible though as the gravy train here has gotten too big and everyone wants to get on it - so the effect is no longer marginal. Surely there always was 'research' by interest groups such as tobacco firms that was anything but scientific. Its easy to focus on or tweak evidence to fit your hypothesis and ignore any that disproves it. Now we are seeing that Government-sponsored research is probably just as tainted. Which is a big disappointment to the average Joe or PHer.

[B Oeuf]

Massively, you can't blame the Politicians because that's what they do, as do the press.
The CRU emails scandal is an appalling reflection of how easily 'science' can be bought.......or more likely, thanks to the modern age of information we now see how it has always been

[nonegreen]

In summary


Anything done by Newton, Einstien, Farraday, Rutherford and the like = Science

Anything done by professor big fat canadian fker, professor beardy sandalist/lentilist from Norwich, Doctor ugly hairy legged subo lookalikenastylesbianultraleftyfeministbh = Sciunceright

Anything done by George Monbigot and David Begg = Justplainbks

[tegwin]

Scientists have always bent to the will of politicians and or religion...


I think the biggest issue in todays society is the "pop culture".... Simon Cowell is proberably rated higher than any scientist or doctor by an awful lot of people!

Footballs are put on pedestalls for example, scientists are just ignored.... its a culture thing!

[G_T]

tegwin said:

Scientists have always bent to the will of politicians and or religion...

That is the biggest load of bks I have ever heard.

[ludo]

nonegreen said:

In summary


Anything done by Newton, Einstien, Farraday, Rutherford and the like = Science

I think you need to go and find out what Newton was actually like!

There is an amusing parody "Newtongate: the final nail in the coffin of Renaissance and Enlightenment ‘thinking’", here

http://carbonfixated.com/newtongate-the-final-nail...

[Engineer1]

Science has always worked inside the constraints of the culture of the time, scientists can "know and believe" certain things but choose not to be too vocal in their promotion of this. Science works by trying to prove truths whilst at the same time being open to the possibility your truth is false.
The media see science and scientists as oracles of truth, they grasp an idea as TRUE, then run with it if a rival scientist comes along with a better explanation then the original scientist is assumed to have been lying Also Science has moved on to the point that even well educated people can't understand all the science 100%.
I have A levels for Physics and Biology, but particle physics makes no sense to me and biochemistry may as well be black magic. I accept that the scientist making an announcemnet is saying what they have proved to be true this time, but that until more proof is provided it could be wrong.

[him_over_there]

I think a large part of the problem is the media not understanding or mis-representing scientific findings, journals, papers etc.

Often you read a piece on the BBC or in the newspaper etc but when you go and read the actual paper it was based on, it's almost never an accurate summary.

I also think this mistrust of science is largely based around 2 things. 1) The general population not having even a fundamental understanding of the scientific method and 2) Not liking certain science outputs which don't fit in with their, ignorant, world view.

G_T, can you PM me ? I have something, and from reading your posts on here I think you might find it funny

Edited by him_over_there on Friday 11th December 12:41

[G_T]

Engineer1 said:

Science has always worked inside the constraints of the culture of the time, .

I'm sure Darwin, Einstein, Galileo and Hawkings would probably dispute that.

You should try quantum theory. It's brilliant. In the words of Einstein "if you think you understand it, you don't".

ludo said:

There is an amusing parody "Newtongate: the final nail in the coffin of Renaissance and Enlightenment ‘thinking’", here

http://carbonfixated.com/newtongate-the-final-nail...

Very very good. I love a bit of satire.

[stew-S160]

G_T said:

tegwin said:

Scientists have always bent to the will of politicians and or religion...

That is the biggest load of bks I have ever heard.

funny that, everything you write is the biggest load of bks i've ever read...

[G_T]

stew-S160 said:

G_T said:

tegwin said:

Scientists have always bent to the will of politicians and or religion...

That is the biggest load of bks I have ever heard.

funny that, everything you write is the biggest load of bks i've ever read...

Ahh another unprovoked attack from the keyboard warrior.

Still not going to bite I'm afraid. Life's too short.

[Fidgits]

if you are prepared to fund a research team to "find" something, chances are they will... especially if it means continued funding...

[Engineer1]

G_T said:

Engineer1 said:

Science has always worked inside the constraints of the culture of the time, .

I'm sure Darwin, Einstein, Galileo and Hawkings would probably dispute that.

You should try quantum theory. It's brilliant. In the words of Einstein "if you think you understand it, you don't".

Cosmological constant?? Einstien believed for years the universe was constant so when his theory gave an expansion he fudged it. Galileo realised the earth wasn't the centre of the solar system but the church forced him to recant.I can't think of anything for Hawkings but scientists do bow to external pressure, be it funding, life style or their imortal souls they are still people after all.

Edited by Engineer1 on Friday 11th December 14:26

[G_T]

Engineer1 said:

G_T said:

Engineer1 said:

Science has always worked inside the constraints of the culture of the time, .

I'm sure Darwin, Einstein, Galileo and Hawkings would probably dispute that.

You should try quantum theory. It's brilliant. In the words of Einstein "if you think you understand it, you don't".

Cosmological constant?? Einstien believed for years the universe was constant so when his theory gave an expansion he fudged it. Galileo realised the earth wasn't the centre of the solar system but the church forced him to recant.I can't think of anything for Hawkings but scientists do bow to external pressure, be it funding, life style or their imortal souls they are still people after all.

Galileo only initially recanted under threats from the inquisition. He then published a second book and refused to back down. As a consequence he spent the remainder of his days under house arrest.

Darwin effectively disproved creationism as well as Lamarks theories. He faced constant bombardment from former colleagues. Even his former mentor argued his work was a fool's errand. His own wife, a devote Christian, put enormouse pressure on him to back down. He never did. If the stories are to be believed he had huge mental anguish as a result of his discovery particularly because of the death of his son.

As for Einstein and Hawkings. They acted indepedantly and, particularly the former, against the concensus of both industry and scientific culture. Over a hundred physicists grouped together to publish a book in an attempt to disprove Einstein's theory of relativity. He never yielded, infact he jokingly responded with "if one of them was correct it would have been enough!". How could either of produced such revolutionary theories if they had simply desired to go with the flow?

I'll profess I'm not great with history. But if there is one industry that does not go with the grain it is science. Otherwise how on Earth can you explain the innovative ideas that have come as a result of it?

It's not immune to corruption, no one is, but I would happily put my neck on the line when I say that most scientists are dedicated people who value intellectual freedoms above monetary gain. To suggest otherwise requires more than a few leaked emails I'm afraid.

Just my two cents by the way. I'm not wishing to argue, just curious to debate your point.

Edited by G_T on Friday 11th December 15:02

[B Oeuf]

aaaaaneeeway, 60% to the 'science has been tainted' lot

[Eric Mc]

tegwin said:

Footballs are put on pedestalls for example, scientists are just ignored.... its a culture thing!

The danger of putting footballs on pedestals -

[G_T]

In a response the leaked emails 62% of Pistonheaders now believe the Sun revolves around the Earth, God created the Universe in 6 days and MMGW has been completely disproved.

Edited by G_T on Friday 11th December 15:24

[stew-S160]

Guam said:

G_T said:

stew-S160 said:

G_T said:

tegwin said:

Scientists have always bent to the will of politicians and or religion...

That is the biggest load of bks I have ever heard.

funny that, everything you write is the biggest load of bks i've ever read...

Ahh another unprovoked attack from the keyboard warrior.

Still not going to bite I'm afraid. Life's too short.

Oh the Irony IS strong in this one

G T, i'm hardly a keyboard warrior. i keep out of most of these threads, only read them. but when morons like you come along, trolling as you clearly do, then i feel an urge, an urge to call you an idiot or such like.