Discussion
This terrible proposal has reared its ugly head again.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_we...
They are indicating that this is ok as it would save lives, money on NHS and have little effect on moderate drinkers.
Well last night I had a night in and drank 6 cans of beer, bought on special offer (2x15 cans for £16). The same amount on the new scheme will cost approx £30. I think the need someone with a better understanding of maths doubling the price is a rather large effect.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_we...
bbc said:
Report backs minimum drink prices
Selection of malt whisky
The Sheffield University research was commissioned by Holyrood
Scottish government plans to introduce minimum pricing for alcohol have won the backing of an academic report.
Researchers at Sheffield University suggest a price as low as 40p per unit could save hundreds of lives per year, cut crime and improve quality of life.
It would mean wine would have to cost at least £3.60 per bottle and a six-pack of lager £4.80.
Scottish ministers are considering the measure to try to force a "culture change" but no price has been decided.
Critics say evidence from abroad suggests the policy would not work and that it will not address the problems that lead people to drink too much in the first place.
Scotland's rates of alcohol-related crime and health problems are among the worst in the developed world, with many citing cheap drink as a contributory factor.
According to the government-commissioned study, a 40p minimum unit price - coupled with a ban on promotions - would cut the number of alcohol-related deaths by about 70 in its first year.
After a decade, the policy would save the health service an estimated £160m and lead to about 370 fewer deaths annually.
Setting the minimum at 50p would have an even greater impact, the paper suggests.
The study, which is being published in full on Monday, will also suggest a minimum alcohol price would lead to 30,000 fewer absence days from work a year.
The researchers said the greatest impact of minimum pricing should be on heavy drinkers who tend to buy cheaper, high-strength products such as white cider.
Moderate drinkers will barely be affected at all, the academics say.
Health Secretary Nicola Sturgeon said: "It's now widely recognised that excessive alcohol consumption across society, fanned by rock-bottom pricing, is one of the biggest threats to Scottish public health."
She added: "But it's clear that to bring about a real, lasting culture change we've got to be bolder. That's why the Scottish Government is bringing forward a radical package of measures in the Alcohol Bill."
Chief medical officer Harry Burns said: "All the evidence suggests that if you want to reduce alcohol-related harm, you need to look at price and availability, which are the key drivers of consumption.
"I've got to admit that initially I was sceptical about minimum pricing but when you look at the facts, it becomes a no-brainer."
'Cycle of deprivation'
Earlier this year, the chief medical officer for England, Sir Liam Donaldson, said such measures would save thousands of lives.
But any plan to introduce minimum pricing would be opposed by Scottish Liberal Democrats and Conservatives.
Lib Dem justice spokesman Robert Brown MSP said: "Minimum pricing won't tackle the cycle of deprivation that often drives people to drinking cheap, high strength alcohol in the first place. Nor will it bring about the cultural change necessary to tackle Scotland's relationship with alcohol."
He said he was concerned about the impact such rules could have on the whisky industry - a concern echoed by Tory deputy leader Murdo Fraser.
Mr Fraser added: "This academic research, commissioned and funded by the SNP Government, flies in the face of evidence from Scandinavia and elsewhere that high prices do not solve alcohol abuse."
If Scotland does go ahead, it will be the first country in Europe to try the policy.
They are trying to introduce a minimum price for alcohol of 40-50p per unit.Selection of malt whisky
The Sheffield University research was commissioned by Holyrood
Scottish government plans to introduce minimum pricing for alcohol have won the backing of an academic report.
Researchers at Sheffield University suggest a price as low as 40p per unit could save hundreds of lives per year, cut crime and improve quality of life.
It would mean wine would have to cost at least £3.60 per bottle and a six-pack of lager £4.80.
Scottish ministers are considering the measure to try to force a "culture change" but no price has been decided.
Critics say evidence from abroad suggests the policy would not work and that it will not address the problems that lead people to drink too much in the first place.
Scotland's rates of alcohol-related crime and health problems are among the worst in the developed world, with many citing cheap drink as a contributory factor.
According to the government-commissioned study, a 40p minimum unit price - coupled with a ban on promotions - would cut the number of alcohol-related deaths by about 70 in its first year.
After a decade, the policy would save the health service an estimated £160m and lead to about 370 fewer deaths annually.
Setting the minimum at 50p would have an even greater impact, the paper suggests.
The study, which is being published in full on Monday, will also suggest a minimum alcohol price would lead to 30,000 fewer absence days from work a year.
The researchers said the greatest impact of minimum pricing should be on heavy drinkers who tend to buy cheaper, high-strength products such as white cider.
Moderate drinkers will barely be affected at all, the academics say.
Health Secretary Nicola Sturgeon said: "It's now widely recognised that excessive alcohol consumption across society, fanned by rock-bottom pricing, is one of the biggest threats to Scottish public health."
She added: "But it's clear that to bring about a real, lasting culture change we've got to be bolder. That's why the Scottish Government is bringing forward a radical package of measures in the Alcohol Bill."
Chief medical officer Harry Burns said: "All the evidence suggests that if you want to reduce alcohol-related harm, you need to look at price and availability, which are the key drivers of consumption.
"I've got to admit that initially I was sceptical about minimum pricing but when you look at the facts, it becomes a no-brainer."
'Cycle of deprivation'
Earlier this year, the chief medical officer for England, Sir Liam Donaldson, said such measures would save thousands of lives.
But any plan to introduce minimum pricing would be opposed by Scottish Liberal Democrats and Conservatives.
Lib Dem justice spokesman Robert Brown MSP said: "Minimum pricing won't tackle the cycle of deprivation that often drives people to drinking cheap, high strength alcohol in the first place. Nor will it bring about the cultural change necessary to tackle Scotland's relationship with alcohol."
He said he was concerned about the impact such rules could have on the whisky industry - a concern echoed by Tory deputy leader Murdo Fraser.
Mr Fraser added: "This academic research, commissioned and funded by the SNP Government, flies in the face of evidence from Scandinavia and elsewhere that high prices do not solve alcohol abuse."
If Scotland does go ahead, it will be the first country in Europe to try the policy.
They are indicating that this is ok as it would save lives, money on NHS and have little effect on moderate drinkers.
Well last night I had a night in and drank 6 cans of beer, bought on special offer (2x15 cans for £16). The same amount on the new scheme will cost approx £30. I think the need someone with a better understanding of maths doubling the price is a rather large effect.
voyds9 said:
Well last night I had a night in and drank 6 cans of beer, bought on special offer (2x15 cans for £16). The same amount on the new scheme will cost approx £30. I think the need someone with a better understanding of maths doubling the price is a rather large effect.
Umm - that's the point, surely ? voyds9 said:
Well last night I had a night in and drank 6 cans of beer, bought on special offer (2x15 cans for £16). The same amount on the new scheme will cost approx £30. I think the need someone with a better understanding of maths doubling the price is a rather large effect.
Maximum recommended intake for a male is 21 units, or just over 9 cans of beer (440ml @ 5%) per week. If you drank this amount every week for a year and only ever bought special offer prices, it would cost you an extra £4.20 per week (just over £200 per year). Not a rather large effect in my opinion.
Get yer Los Palmas 7 said:
Simpo Two said:
Or is it just a simple grasping tax hike with 'life-saving' as a smokescreen?
Are you suggesting that the government would use the "it's for your own good" ploy to extract more money from us?You old cynic you.
The older I get, the more cynical I get, yet still the more cynical I have to be. Possibly something to do with 12 years of Labour bulls
t, which at every turn makes me poorer.Stevenj214 said:
voyds9 said:
Well last night I had a night in and drank 6 cans of beer, bought on special offer (2x15 cans for £16). The same amount on the new scheme will cost approx £30. I think the need someone with a better understanding of maths doubling the price is a rather large effect.
Maximum recommended intake for a male is 21 units, or just over 9 cans of beer (440ml @ 5%) per week. If you drank this amount every week for a year and only ever bought special offer prices, it would cost you an extra £4.20 per week (just over £200 per year). Not a rather large effect in my opinion.Don't forget that the fabled 21 units a week is the point at which risk starts to rise, even the WHO recommends no more than 28 units, and liver damage doesn't appear to start until 30 units per week.
First speeders, second smokers, third drinkers. Soon life is going to be so safe it wont be worth living.
Simpo Two said:
The older I get, the more cynical I get.
Same here.And this is yet another knee-jerk, one size fits all, lowest common denominator "solution" to a problem concerning a tiny proportion of the population. But because they can't specifically target these morons, everyone has to suffer.
1) time to "stock up"
2) time to think seriously about home brew
3) how difficult can it be to build a still for vodka?
ETA
oooh look what I found..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Smart-Still-Vodka-making-mac...
2) time to think seriously about home brew
3) how difficult can it be to build a still for vodka?
ETA
oooh look what I found..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Smart-Still-Vodka-making-mac...
Edited by davido140 on Sunday 27th September 11:43
I think it's sad that some people have such awful lives/problems that they need to be permanently intoxicated. Minimum pricing wont change much in that aspect, the wealthier ones will carry on as normal, the poorer ones will probably turn to drugs and/or glue sniffing instead...and/or petty crime will rise to fund it.
Finding the root cause of the problem ( mental healthwise)should be the way forward - but when many 'unfortunate' people have been left to 'care in the community' and the benefits system encourages teenage mums - there's not much hope.
Finding the root cause of the problem ( mental healthwise)should be the way forward - but when many 'unfortunate' people have been left to 'care in the community' and the benefits system encourages teenage mums - there's not much hope.
marshalla said:
voyds9 said:
Well last night I had a night in and drank 6 cans of beer, bought on special offer (2x15 cans for £16). The same amount on the new scheme will cost approx £30. I think the need someone with a better understanding of maths doubling the price is a rather large effect.
Umm - that's the point, surely ? Just because you bought 30 tinnies, doesn't mean you have to drink them all in one sitting.
There comes a point when you think 'I'm feeling a bit pissed. Thats enough for one night'. If you decided to drink until your liver collapses under its own gravity, then its not Tesco's fault for having a special offer. Its your fault for being a retard.
Yes, lets put a tax on it. Sorry...what was the question?
s2art said:
Stevenj214 said:
Maximum recommended intake for a male is 21 units, or just over 9 cans of beer (440ml @ 5%) per week.
Any idea of the basis behind this recommendation?Its a classic example of government intervention. For example, the BMA recently announced research than one drink a day for a pregnant woman has no ill health effects and could be beneficial. The government overruled this so they had to say even though it was safe, people should follow government guidelines and drink nothing. So follow the government, not the doctors.
Same with eggs - all that don't eat more than one egg nonsense was proven as arse but Lion were still not allowed to bring back the go to work on an egg advert as it goes against government guidelines.
How about they all f*** off and I'll decide whether I want to drink myself to oblivion or not.
When did we all cease being adults and become naughty children who need to be controlled at every point?
Guy Fawkes, where are you now that we need you?
Getting lectured on alcohol consumption by the bunch of soaks that is most MP's is a total pi**take. Will they close down the subsidised House of Common's bars? Will they hell.
When did we all cease being adults and become naughty children who need to be controlled at every point?
Guy Fawkes, where are you now that we need you?
Getting lectured on alcohol consumption by the bunch of soaks that is most MP's is a total pi**take. Will they close down the subsidised House of Common's bars? Will they hell.
Edited by IforB on Sunday 27th September 12:46
davido140 said:
1) time to "stock up"
2) time to think seriously about home brew
3) how difficult can it be to build a still for vodka?
ETA
oooh look what I found..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Smart-Still-Vodka-making-mac...
And think of all the new legislation and 'Fun Wardens' needed to carry out all the 'home brewer' raids!2) time to think seriously about home brew
3) how difficult can it be to build a still for vodka?
ETA
oooh look what I found..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Smart-Still-Vodka-making-mac...
Edited by davido140 on Sunday 27th September 11:43
They must be rubbing their hands together with glee at the thought of the new powers. Criminalise everyone!
Edited by Hedders on Sunday 27th September 13:57
filthstreet said:
Has this not been put on hold due to it being against EU trade rules or something?
I can't see how. We currently have a minimum price per litre of petrol and diesel and tobacco set by duty that the EU is happy with so I can't see why the same would not be allowed with alcohol, especially when you consider that petrol/diesel is a need for many people, booze and fags are merely a want.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff