Smokers are GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY!

[davido140]

Sorry to mods for cross posting, I felt the need to blow this particular trumpet in its own thread.

It's never really bothered me being made a bit of a social paraiah for enjoying a cigarette or ten, the smoking ban in bars and pubs didnt affect me much either, I just make sure I have a nice warm coat in the winter.

After all, it stinks, and it's bad for your health. I can understand non smokers not finding it pleasant and not wanting me to be near them when I smoke.

However, it REALLY gets my goat/grinds my gears/boils by piss, when I hear the "smokers cost the NHS xxx billion a year" argument, or a "it should be banned" statement.

The reality is, its a bloody good job there are plenty of smokers in the UK, we pay for a fair whack of the NHS and dont consume as much as we contribute, FACT!

Sorry again for cross posting, but when it comes down to brass tacks..

Smokers contribute 10 billion pounderoonies in duty and VAT on tobacco products every year.

Cost to the NHS? last estimate was that it was roughly 5 billion...

so thats 5 billion spare, if everyone stopped tommorow there would be a 5 billion pound hole in the national budget. This doesnt factor in the money smokers SAVE the NHS, government and councils by popping their clogs early and not having to have home help, meals on wheels, day care, hips replaced and all the usual old age illnesses and of course claiming their state pensions for longer.

Short answer is, smokers do everyone a favour by stinking a bit and living shorter lives!

to make up that missing 5 billion, every tax payer in the UK would have to pay roughly £200 a year extra tax to make up the shortfall!

Sources

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/news/archive/news...

http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tobacco-tax-revenue.aspx

Once again, appologies for the rant, feel free to tear my argument apart.

Edited by davido140 on Monday 14th September 10:48

[BrabusMog]

Now being a smug ex smoker, I can see both sides of the argument. To be fair, if idiots want to line government pockets and kill themselves at the same time, leave them to it. Just don't leave extra work for me to do when you go for one of your many fag breaks.

[Odie]

Problem is tho david that of that 10 billion that smokers give to the government, Feck all of it goes to the NHS.

I have nothing against smokers myself, but was glad to see the smoking relocation in pubs and clubs come in, I do feel that maybe better provision needs to be made for smokers outside tho, they shouldnt be made to feel they are hard done too (but this is suppose is down the individual pubs and clubs).

If everyone did quit smoking tomorrow (or started using them electrical cigarettes etc) then the governement would just find something else "Evil" to tax (donuts, cooking oil, lard, windows [the type you have in your house]) in order to raise the 10billion defesit (sp).

[davido140]

EP2Nick said:

First link doesn't work

Can you elaborate on how much smokers (and costs involved with passive smoking) cost the NHS per year? Where did you get the info?

Edited by EP2Nick on Monday 14th September 10:36

Sorry, will try to fix, that particular article was one from a cancer reasearch charity, stating the the cost of smokers ilnesses and passive smoking included to the NHS was 5 billion a year. There was something similar on the BBC news website not long ago, these are revised figures, up from the previous estimated 1.7 billion.

ETA link fixed, also http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8086142.stm from bbc news

Edited by davido140 on Monday 14th September 10:51

[davido140]

Odie said:

Problem is tho david that of that 10 billion that smokers give to the government, Feck all of it goes to the NHS.

I have nothing against smokers myself, but was glad to see the smoking relocation in pubs and clubs come in, I do feel that maybe better provision needs to be made for smokers outside tho, they shouldnt be made to feel they are hard done too (but this is suppose is down the individual pubs and clubs).

If everyone did quit smoking tomorrow (or started using them electrical cigarettes etc) then the governement would just find something else "Evil" to tax (donuts, cooking oil, lard, windows [the type you have in your house]) in order to raise the 10billion defesit (sp).

you are of course correct, it all goes into a big pot and is spent on the whims of the government at the time. I really would love to see more taxes "ring fenced" for particular parts of the national spend.

We'd all love to see road and fuel tax going to build bigger, better roads for example, never going to happen though.

The point being though is that smokers are not a drain on the economy or NHS, they are a fairly sizable benefit!

I'm assuming by the window tax comment you're aware that's already happened?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_tax

Edited by davido140 on Monday 14th September 10:55

[Kermit power]

Odie said:

Problem is though David that of that 10 billion that smokers give to the government, Feck all of it goes to the NHS.

If everyone did quit smoking tomorrow (or started using them electrical cigarettes etc) then the government would just find something else "Evil" to tax (doughnuts, cooking oil, lard, windows [the type you have in your house]) in order to raise the 10billion deficit (sp).

You're contradicting yourself in these two sentences.

Of course the government doesn't have people in offices trained to take each pound as it comes in and write on it exactly what it is to be spent on (although knowing this government, they're probably considering it) but the fact remains that there's a quantity coming in, and a quantity going out.

You could say that all £10Bn of smoking-related revenue goes on the NHS, or that none of it does. The only thing that matters is that without it, as you say, that £10Bn would have to come from elsewhere.

Personally, I'd rather see that £10Bn coming from a group to which I do not belong than from one to which I do.

[Neil_H]

This topic has been done to death and always results in a 30 page bunfight, let's just lock this now and save everyone the grief.....

[davido140]

BrabusMog said:

Now being a smug ex smoker, I can see both sides of the argument. To be fair, if idiots want to line government pockets and kill themselves at the same time, leave them to it. Just don't leave extra work for me to do when you go for one of your many fag breaks.

haha, the worst kind of non-smoker!

When they do go for their fag breaks and you have to pick up that little bit of slack just remind yourself they
A) are paying you for it (in respect of pickup up that £200 a year tax bill)
B) are going to die before you
c) stink
d) are probably freezing their nuts off and getting rained on due to global warming.

[cazzer]

Personally I haven't smoked a cigarette with an English health warning on it for about 5 years.
So no tax revenue goes to the government at all.
If they want me to buy gigs in this country, stop taking the piss with the tax.
Until they do that, I'll continue to buy them abroad, in which case they get nothing.

[davido140]

Kermit power said:

Personally, I'd rather see that £10Bn coming from a group to which I do not belong than from one to which I do.

precisely my point to the non smokers, hell, buy us smokers a pint next time you see us huddled outside the pub, it's a lot cheaper than the alternative

[Shabs]

Another big + for smoking (no I don't smoke) is that most of them die young meaning there is less of a government pension hole than there would be if they took care of their health and lived longer.

[davido140]

cazzer said:

Personally I haven't smoked a cigarette with an English health warning on it for about 5 years.
So no tax revenue goes to the government at all.
If they want me to buy gigs in this country, stop taking the piss with the tax.
Until they do that, I'll continue to buy them abroad, in which case they get nothing.

arrgh, that completely scuppers my argument! stop it!!!!

[philthy]

Has anyone else noticed how many more fat grumpy people there are about these days, because people have quit smoking?

[davido140]

Neil_H said:

This topic has been done to death and always results in a 30 page bunfight, let's just lock this now and save everyone the grief.....

I dont think its been done from a purely "cost or benefit to the country" point of view, feel prove me wrong though.

Dont want this to turn into petty arguments, if I can be proved wrong from different/better sources then please make me look a cock, I'll appologies and bugger off

[davido140]

philthy said:

Has anyone else noticed how many more fat grumpy people there are about these days, because people have quit smoking?

Of course, thats another argument, whats worse for you, smoking 20 a day or being a huge fatty? how many "oldies" that smoke 20 a day do you know, are aware of, have been related to? I certainly know (or have known) some in my family. I'd say your chances of survial into your 80's were better on B&H that Big Macs!

how many 20 stone 70-80 year olds do you think there are? Cant think of any in my family.

mc donalds probably costs as much, if not more to the NHS and society as a whole! most common obesity related illnesses being relatively treatable compared to the big C (diabetes for example).

however, please lets not digress too much, thats a topic for another thread perhaps...

[RichB]

And smokers that drive are even better for the country... just as long as they remember their cars have ash trays and don't flick the dog-end out the window to bounce off my car when I have the roof off!

[DrTre]

Neil_H said:

This topic has been done to death and always results in a 30 page bunfight, let's just lock this now and save everyone the grief.....

Naah, let it run long enough and the smokers get out of breath first.

[bazking69]

I haven't paid tax on my smokes for years. I'd rather give up than pay £5.50 a pack....

So I'm probably not one those smokers who is good for the country!

[Parsnip]

davido140 said:

When they do go for their fag breaks and you have to pick up that little bit of slack just remind yourself they
A) are paying you for it (in respect of pickup up that £200 a year tax bill)
B) are going to die before you
c) stink
d) are probably freezing their nuts off and getting rained on due to global warming.

All personal choices - quit if it means that much to you - just don't expect me to work harder because of it.

I have no problem whatsoever with smokers, but the idea that people who choose not to smoke should have to work harder to cover them is laughable.

In my case it is a bit of a moot point - I have work to do, and if i finish early, I go home. If is piss about all day and don't get it done, i'm either staying late or working at home.

[rhinochopig]

Ah yes but you've forgotten the costs for:

• Clearing up fag buts outside of pubs.
• All the nasty carbons you put into the atmosphere
• The extra dry cleaning pollutants for coats
• All the carbons that YOU DIRECTLY create by buying cigs, which allow tobacco companies to sponsor motorsport thus killing the planet.
• All the fossil fuels you consume when trying to light you cancerous death sticks on a windy day.
• All the children you harm - won't someone think of the blessed children.
• The rare moths that are drawn to your death beacons only to be engulfed in toxic fumes before bursting into flames.
• The extra benefits that the undernourished shop assistant uses when they go off sick from hurting their back when stretching to reach the 20 pack of Benny Hedgehogs.
• The shortage in aluminium that ciggies create though its use in the foil packaging thus robbing the world of light weight sport-cars. Just look how much heavier cars are these days - THIS IS YOUR FAULT!

Smokers = Environmental Criminals