Just when you thought Brown couldn't sink any lower...
Discussion
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefr...
Brown, you are traitor to this nation and deserve a traitor's death.
Telegraph said:
SAS trains Libyan troops
The SAS has been ordered by the Government to train Libyan special forces despite the country having armed the IRA, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.
For the past six months Britain’s elite troops have been schooling soldiers working for Col Muammar Gaddafi’s regime, which for years provided Republican terrorists with the Semtex explosive, machine-guns and anti-aircraft missiles used against British troops during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.
Sources within the SAS have expressed distaste at the agreement, which they believe could be connected to the release of the Lockerbie bomber.
Britain’s relationship with Libya has been under the spotlight since Abdelbaset al Megrahi was freed from a Scottish jail on compassionate grounds last month after being diagnosed as suffering from terminal prostate cancer and given three months to live.
Gordon Brown has faced claims that his Government helped engineer Megrahi’s release to promote Britain’s commercial interests, particularly energy, in Libya.
Downing Street has denied the allegations, but Jack Straw, the Justice Minister, has admitted that trade was a factor in deciding to include Megrahi in an earlier prisoner transfer agreement with Libya. Megrahi was the only person convicted for the murder of 270 people killed in the bombing in 1988 of Pan Am flight 103.
The disclosure that members of the SAS are training their Libyan counterparts will further raise suspicions about exactly what has been agreed behind the scenes between Tripoli and Britain.
It will also infuriate families of the Lockerbie victims and further sour relations with America. Earlier this week, President Barack Obama told the Prime Minister of his “disappointment” over Megrahi’s release.
Defence sources said the training arrangement must have been given high-level political approval.
Members of Britain’s elite regiment are angry at having to help train soldiers from a country that for years armed terrorists they fought against.
An SAS source said: “A small SAS training team have been doing it for the last six months as part of this cosy deal with the Libyans.
“From our perspective we cannot see it as part of anything else other than the Megrahi deal.” Another SAS soldier said: “The IRA was our greatest adversary now we are training their backers. There was a weary rolling of the eyes when we were told about this.”
The Ministry of Defence refuses to comment on special forces activities, but sources have admitted that SAS reserves have bolstered the team that has been training “Libyan infantry in basic skills”.
A senior defence source admitted: “This is a huge political embarrassment.’’
The first moves towards setting up the training agreement are believed to have begun after Tony Blair visited
Libya as Prime Minister in 2004. However, the deal was only finalised and “signed off” by Mr Brown earlier this year.
Robin Horsfall, a former SAS soldier who took part in the Iranian Embassy siege in 1980 and fought the IRA in Northern Ireland, said:
“There is a long list of British soldiers who have died because of Gaddafi funding terrorists.
“The SAS is being ordered to do something it knows is morally wrong.’’
The team – a troop of between four and 14 men – is training the Libyans in counter-terrorism techniques, including covert surveillance.
However, the “full spectrum of techniques” learned from fighting Islamic terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan is not expected to be passed on.
Once an international pariah, Col Gaddafi agreed in 2003 to give up Libya’s weapons of mass destruction and has since enjoyed steadily improving relations with the West.
It's going to be interesting to see how this goes down with my uncle. He's ex-SAS and was both shot and blown up in Northern Ireland in the 70s and was also involved in a number of operations in Libya. I imagine he'll be thinking of coming out of retirement for one last op...The SAS has been ordered by the Government to train Libyan special forces despite the country having armed the IRA, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.
For the past six months Britain’s elite troops have been schooling soldiers working for Col Muammar Gaddafi’s regime, which for years provided Republican terrorists with the Semtex explosive, machine-guns and anti-aircraft missiles used against British troops during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.
Sources within the SAS have expressed distaste at the agreement, which they believe could be connected to the release of the Lockerbie bomber.
Britain’s relationship with Libya has been under the spotlight since Abdelbaset al Megrahi was freed from a Scottish jail on compassionate grounds last month after being diagnosed as suffering from terminal prostate cancer and given three months to live.
Gordon Brown has faced claims that his Government helped engineer Megrahi’s release to promote Britain’s commercial interests, particularly energy, in Libya.
Downing Street has denied the allegations, but Jack Straw, the Justice Minister, has admitted that trade was a factor in deciding to include Megrahi in an earlier prisoner transfer agreement with Libya. Megrahi was the only person convicted for the murder of 270 people killed in the bombing in 1988 of Pan Am flight 103.
The disclosure that members of the SAS are training their Libyan counterparts will further raise suspicions about exactly what has been agreed behind the scenes between Tripoli and Britain.
It will also infuriate families of the Lockerbie victims and further sour relations with America. Earlier this week, President Barack Obama told the Prime Minister of his “disappointment” over Megrahi’s release.
Defence sources said the training arrangement must have been given high-level political approval.
Members of Britain’s elite regiment are angry at having to help train soldiers from a country that for years armed terrorists they fought against.
An SAS source said: “A small SAS training team have been doing it for the last six months as part of this cosy deal with the Libyans.
“From our perspective we cannot see it as part of anything else other than the Megrahi deal.” Another SAS soldier said: “The IRA was our greatest adversary now we are training their backers. There was a weary rolling of the eyes when we were told about this.”
The Ministry of Defence refuses to comment on special forces activities, but sources have admitted that SAS reserves have bolstered the team that has been training “Libyan infantry in basic skills”.
A senior defence source admitted: “This is a huge political embarrassment.’’
The first moves towards setting up the training agreement are believed to have begun after Tony Blair visited
Libya as Prime Minister in 2004. However, the deal was only finalised and “signed off” by Mr Brown earlier this year.
Robin Horsfall, a former SAS soldier who took part in the Iranian Embassy siege in 1980 and fought the IRA in Northern Ireland, said:
“There is a long list of British soldiers who have died because of Gaddafi funding terrorists.
“The SAS is being ordered to do something it knows is morally wrong.’’
The team – a troop of between four and 14 men – is training the Libyans in counter-terrorism techniques, including covert surveillance.
However, the “full spectrum of techniques” learned from fighting Islamic terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan is not expected to be passed on.
Once an international pariah, Col Gaddafi agreed in 2003 to give up Libya’s weapons of mass destruction and has since enjoyed steadily improving relations with the West.
Brown, you are traitor to this nation and deserve a traitor's death.
Jasandjules said:
I hope that's not true.
Likewise.I thought that the Nuremberg trials had made it clear enough - immoral orders must not be obeyed by military personnel.
Source in the article said:
The SAS is being ordered to do something it knows is morally wrong.
The problem must arise from a level of disagreement over what constitutes an immoral order. It needs to be tested.Libya was once our enemy and hence funded the IRA. Now it is becoming much friendler with the west and we should respond accordingly.
Foreign policy should not be based on sentiment and a listing of past grievances, but on a clear eyed view of the national interest. Our interest in Libya are oil and an ally against Islamic Fundamentalism.
Foreign policy should not be based on sentiment and a listing of past grievances, but on a clear eyed view of the national interest. Our interest in Libya are oil and an ally against Islamic Fundamentalism.
cymtriks said:
Training = Learning as much as possible about the people you are training
Not sure if you're speaking from experience there, possibly so, but the perspective is different from my previous limited and minor role which invloved being trained by SAS troops given the tedious but necessary task of upskilling regular officers alongside personnel who had already 'graduated' from military academies abroad - what they'll learn is what we learnt, namely that the basic training elsewhere is often substandard. They will have known that anyway, since that's why they're there.cymtriks said:
You don't seriously think that they are just "training" do you?
Beyond eyes and ears open, what are they going to do? It's not as if their nature and military role was ever hidden. If UK interests wanted special forces to do funny business anywhere abroad they will be there already, there's no need to wait in expectation of an eejit PM who thinks he can rehabilitate other world leaders.JagLover said:
Libya was once our enemy and hence funded the IRA. Now it is becoming much friendler with the west and we should respond accordingly.
Foreign policy should not be based on sentiment and a listing of past grievances, but on a clear eyed view of the national interest. Our interest in Libya are oil and an ally against Islamic Fundamentalism.
That's fair enough but if you're going to get into bed with a former enemy you should wait until they've changed the sheets.Foreign policy should not be based on sentiment and a listing of past grievances, but on a clear eyed view of the national interest. Our interest in Libya are oil and an ally against Islamic Fundamentalism.
groucho said:
Why are we so soft these days?
Because "we" were the UK, and it's finished, over, out, gone, sunk, lost, ruined, collapsed, crashed, crushed, decayed, demolished, desolated, exterminated, extinct, extinguished, extirpated, ravaged, smashed, torn down, totaled, wrecked, botched, broken, defaced, done for, marred, pillaged, plundered, beggared, out of business, derelict, dilapidated, fordone, irremediable, irreparable, spoilt, undid, undone, cowed, crushed, disappointed, discomfited, disheartened, frustrated, humbled, overpowered, overthrown, overwhelmed, routed, ruined, subjugated, surmounted, thwarted, trounced, busted, unstuck, defective, disabled, down, exhausted, fallen apart, faulty, feeble, gone, gone to pieces, gone to pot, imperfect, in disrepair, beyond repair, inoperable, kaput, not functioning, on the blink, on the fritz, on the shelf, out, out of commission, out of kilter, out of order, out of whack, ruined, run-down, screwed up, shot, spent, weak, wracked, wrecked.Not to sound too pessimistic about it.
Oh get of your moral high horses FFS. The SAS has been doing this for the last 50 years. Who do you think trained THE MAJORITY of presidential protection squads of the majority of the worlds tin-pot dictators. Successive British governments (Labour AND Conservative) have been using the SAS as political currency for years.
Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 14th September 10:53
AJS- said:
groucho said:
Why are we so soft these days?
Because "we" were the UK, and it's finished, over, out, gone, sunk, lost, ruined, collapsed, crashed, crushed, decayed, demolished, desolated, exterminated, extinct, extinguished, extirpated, ravaged, smashed, torn down, totaled, wrecked, botched, broken, defaced, done for, marred, pillaged, plundered, beggared, out of business, derelict, dilapidated, fordone, irremediable, irreparable, spoilt, undid, undone, cowed, crushed, disappointed, discomfited, disheartened, frustrated, humbled, overpowered, overthrown, overwhelmed, routed, ruined, subjugated, surmounted, thwarted, trounced, busted, unstuck, defective, disabled, down, exhausted, fallen apart, faulty, feeble, gone, gone to pieces, gone to pot, imperfect, in disrepair, beyond repair, inoperable, kaput, not functioning, on the blink, on the fritz, on the shelf, out, out of commission, out of kilter, out of order, out of whack, ruined, run-down, screwed up, shot, spent, weak, wracked, wrecked.Not to sound too pessimistic about it.
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