Questions the Doctor and Lose Your child?
Discussion
speedchick said:
I find the story for quite a different reason. If the girl has indeed become paralysed, she will have undoubtedly been investigated thoroughly for the cause of the paralysis. Presumably no cause has been found. A fully bank of investigations would certainly elucidate any cause and certainly any cause related to the use of a vaccine, or a 'reaction to it'. This child has also probably been seen by a variety of different specialists, including psychiatrists who will have accurately diagnosed her condition as of mental origin. This is no different to patients who suffer ME or CFS, which also does not exist. None of these professionals will be in collusion and there is no conspiracy about such patients. I've seen many patients with such conditions, most often with no basis or origin. They are often indulged by their parents, and often have a variety of other psychological problems. Perhaps it's been missed but this child is 13, and is pregnant? An alarm bell should be ringing.
Never mind as a parent. This is encroaching on all aspects of life; the ability of little tin Gods to act with impunity. Where is the ability to challenge the bureaucrats?
We should be writing to our MPS and informing them to sort this out or be punished in the elections. (along with a whole host of other stupidities)
We should be writing to our MPS and informing them to sort this out or be punished in the elections. (along with a whole host of other stupidities)
speedchick said:
as a member of a so called democracy, whose cornerstone of the law is innocent until proven guilty, and freedom of speech, i find it far more than disturbing.if doctors etc don't want to be questioned stop making mistakes.
as none of us will ever be 100% right all the time, we have to expect people to question things.
s2art said:
968 said:
This is no different to patients who suffer ME or CFS, which also does not exist.
How do you know?There was also something last week, I can't remember where I read it, but it was saying that apparently in France, they are talking about taking away children where the parents refuse to allow them to have the Swine Flu vaccine, as refusing them the vaccine is child abuse, there were murmerings of allowing the same over here.
How can they say that it is child abuse to refuse them to inject the child with a drug that they don't need?
How can they say that it is child abuse to refuse them to inject the child with a drug that they don't need?
968 said:
s2art said:
968 said:
This is no different to patients who suffer ME or CFS, which also does not exist.
How do you know?You have to leave a little mendelson room, but any condition which steadfastly remains completely undetectable, unreproducible and only amenable to antidepressants, should probably be looked at in terms of depression. Especially as the WHO managed to get its act together and say similar after a very long time of patients lobbying to be a special case of untreatable.
The problem with these articles is that no one medical person has made the decisions above. There is no little hitler doctor or social worker. It would have fallen to a group of medical staff to have all come to the same conclusion before any child could be taken into care, or even the threat made. You will never hear from these people because they would not comment about a patients medical history to the newspapers. But the parents would have been called into a case conference on at least a few occasiona and had the problems and worries of the medical staff spelt out to them. That person then goes away aggrieved and tells all to the local hack journo.
The article is a one sided rant from aggrieved patients/parents and not a sensible piece of journalism to waste your time on.
The problem with these articles is that no one medical person has made the decisions above. There is no little hitler doctor or social worker. It would have fallen to a group of medical staff to have all come to the same conclusion before any child could be taken into care, or even the threat made. You will never hear from these people because they would not comment about a patients medical history to the newspapers. But the parents would have been called into a case conference on at least a few occasiona and had the problems and worries of the medical staff spelt out to them. That person then goes away aggrieved and tells all to the local hack journo.
The article is a one sided rant from aggrieved patients/parents and not a sensible piece of journalism to waste your time on.
julian64 said:
You have to leave a little mendelson room, but any condition which steadfastly remains completely undetectable, unreproducible and only amenable to antidepressants, should probably be looked at in terms of depression. Especially as the WHO managed to get its act together and say similar after a very long time of patients lobbying to be a special case of untreatable.
The problem with these articles is that no one medical person has made the decisions above. There is no little hitler doctor or social worker. It would have fallen to a group of medical staff to have all come to the same conclusion before any child could be taken into care, or even the threat made. You will never hear from these people because they would not comment about a patients medical history to the newspapers. But the parents would have been called into a case conference on at least a few occasiona and had the problems and worries of the medical staff spelt out to them. That person then goes away aggrieved and tells all to the local hack journo.
The article is a one sided rant from aggrieved patients/parents and not a sensible piece of journalism to waste your time on.
In this case, very possibly. But remember the Gulf war syndrome? Not to mention the attitude of many doctors over things like ME. It seems like all too often illnesses which are difficult to diagnose are simply assigned to 'psychological' problems with very little objective evidence to support such a claim.The problem with these articles is that no one medical person has made the decisions above. There is no little hitler doctor or social worker. It would have fallen to a group of medical staff to have all come to the same conclusion before any child could be taken into care, or even the threat made. You will never hear from these people because they would not comment about a patients medical history to the newspapers. But the parents would have been called into a case conference on at least a few occasiona and had the problems and worries of the medical staff spelt out to them. That person then goes away aggrieved and tells all to the local hack journo.
The article is a one sided rant from aggrieved patients/parents and not a sensible piece of journalism to waste your time on.
s2art said:
968 said:
s2art said:
968 said:
This is no different to patients who suffer ME or CFS, which also does not exist.
How do you know?The WHO classified it as a disease after much political pressure from lobbying groups. Not on any scientific basis whatsoever. There is no evidence of any organics basis for this condition that bears any scrutiny and it's no coincidence that the single worst prognostic indicator is membership of the cfs society (hence further indulgement in their pseudo-illness).
The only evidence based treatment that work is graded exercise and psychotherapy. Odd that.
Edited by 968 on Tuesday 8th September 17:00
Edited by 968 on Tuesday 8th September 17:01
968 said:
s2art said:
968 said:
s2art said:
968 said:
This is no different to patients who suffer ME or CFS, which also does not exist.
How do you know?The WHO classified it as a disease after much political pressure from lobbying groups. Not on any scientific basis whatsoever. There is no evidence of any organics basis for this condition that bears any scrutiny and it's no coincidence that the single worst prognostic indicator is membership of the cfs society (hence further indulgement in their pseudo-illness).
The only evidence based treatment that work is graded exercise and psychotherapy. Odd that.
Edited by 968 on Tuesday 8th September 17:00
Edited by 968 on Tuesday 8th September 17:01
I dont doubt that there are psychological conditions that give ME symptoms, but AIUI psychotherapy and exercise does not cure the majority of ME sufferers.
My understanding is that there is scientific evidence, that does bear scrutiny, that indicates something strange going on with some people who report ME-like symptoms.
968 said:
s2art said:
968 said:
s2art said:
968 said:
This is no different to patients who suffer ME or CFS, which also does not exist.
How do you know?The WHO classified it as a disease after much political pressure from lobbying groups. Not on any scientific basis whatsoever. There is no evidence of any organics basis for this condition that bears any scrutiny and it's no coincidence that the single worst prognostic indicator is membership of the cfs society (hence further indulgement in their pseudo-illness).
The only evidence based treatment that work is graded exercise and psychotherapy. Odd that.
Edited by 968 on Tuesday 8th September 17:00
Edited by 968 on Tuesday 8th September 17:01
The Telegraph has reported a number of worrying cases over the past few years where social workers have apparently seized children on the filmiest of pretexts and then put them into care/later up for adoption.
They abuse the fact that family courts are covered by reporting restrictions to commit acts that would have have virtually the whole country protesting if it could be reported.
Referring to one case where a local family had their children seized, then adopted, their local GP remarked "what has been done to this family is an act of evil".
These are not the usual doleites who seem free to abuse their children free from interference. But honest working families who have fallen foul of the authorities.
They abuse the fact that family courts are covered by reporting restrictions to commit acts that would have have virtually the whole country protesting if it could be reported.
Referring to one case where a local family had their children seized, then adopted, their local GP remarked "what has been done to this family is an act of evil".
These are not the usual doleites who seem free to abuse their children free from interference. But honest working families who have fallen foul of the authorities.
JagLover said:
The Telegraph has reported a number of worrying cases over the past few years where social workers have apparently seized children on the filmiest of pretexts and then put them into care/later up for adoption.
They abuse the fact that family courts are covered by reporting restrictions to commit acts that would have have virtually the whole country protesting if it could be reported.
Referring to one case where a local family had their children seized, then adopted, their local GP remarked "what has been done to this family is an act of evil".
These are not the usual doleites who seem free to abuse their children free from interference. But honest working families who have fallen foul of the authorities.
I think its likely that this must take place. I have never attended a case conference where anyone did much but agree. Mine have all been pretty obvious.They abuse the fact that family courts are covered by reporting restrictions to commit acts that would have have virtually the whole country protesting if it could be reported.
Referring to one case where a local family had their children seized, then adopted, their local GP remarked "what has been done to this family is an act of evil".
These are not the usual doleites who seem free to abuse their children free from interference. But honest working families who have fallen foul of the authorities.
I would caution you on who the usual doleites are because the extent to which children are neglected or abused dosen't seem to have a class attached. Some of the smartest jag driving suited city types can be terrible parents, but you are probably correct in general.
It would be very easy though for a parent to admit to compete abuse in a case conference and then go to the local paper suggesting they'd been stitched up. No health professional in the case conference would dare to talk to the media.
pugwash4x4 said:
So you're saying mental illnesses aren't illnesses then? is the field of pschology therefore entirely useless? is psychotherapy of no use? What is an "organic basis" for deciding on whether something is real or not?
Not at all. There are clear clinical signs and symptoms for most psychological diseases. Cfs is another one which is simply not allowed to be labelled as such because of hysteria invoked by the media. Most psychological illnesses also have treatments which correct biochemical imbalances in the brain. Cfs/me patients are not ALLOWED to have a formal psychiatric assessment for fear of stigmatisation. Indeed patients with cfs aren't investigated with a lumbar puncture either, as it's unpleasant. Which is odd given it's supposed neurological origin.Reviews of the literature reveal the only effective treatments being graded exercise and psychotherapy, with antidepressants. Which simply means it's a depressive illness. But it's not politically correct or indeed allowed to call it that.
It also amuses me that castigated for mentioning anecdotal experience (supported by a lack of objective evidence supporting a non-psychological origin of cfs) but posters are happy to accept the anecdotal stories in the media, assuming medical conspiracy.
968 said:
It also amuses me that castigated for mentioning anecdotal experience (supported by a lack of objective evidence supporting a non-psychological origin of cfs) but posters are happy to accept the anecdotal stories in the media, assuming medical conspiracy.
Who claimed medical conspiricy? s2art said:
968 said:
It also amuses me that castigated for mentioning anecdotal experience (supported by a lack of objective evidence supporting a non-psychological origin of cfs) but posters are happy to accept the anecdotal stories in the media, assuming medical conspiracy.
Who claimed medical conspiricy? bonsai said:
968 said:
Perhaps it's been missed but this child is 13, and is pregnant? An alarm bell should be ringing.
Nowhere in the article does it say that. Maybe you need your eyes tested 
Julian is absolutely right though, these case conferences are not normally snap decision, as has been painted here and often if there are concerns about the child, they are well founded, and it's not always the social groups you would expect.
When I did paediatric Ophthalmology, I saw quite a few kids with 'hysterical' blindness, which is easily uncovered as having no basis with some basic physiological tests. Often the kids seem well adjusted and from very well to do and well adjusted families, however, clearly there are some psychological issues at play.
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