Unison's pension pot - HA HA!
Discussion
Well, I've looked through news & politics, plus done a search on "Unison" with no results, so I don't think the best bit of news for ages is a repost!
For those who've not seen it, Unison, that fine, up-standing defender of final salary pensions for public sector workers has come to the realisation that they can no longer afford their own final salary pension scheme.
Is it possible to have any other reaction than
On a more serious note, does anyone else think this is possibly the best bit of news we've had for ages? All of a sudden, one of the biggest defenders of one of the biggest millstones around the taxpayer's neck in this country has lost absolutely all of their credibility on the issue.
If the unions themselves can't maintain the illusion that final salary pension schemes are viable, is this the beginning of this burden once and for all?
For those who've not seen it, Unison, that fine, up-standing defender of final salary pensions for public sector workers has come to the realisation that they can no longer afford their own final salary pension scheme.
Is it possible to have any other reaction than
On a more serious note, does anyone else think this is possibly the best bit of news we've had for ages? All of a sudden, one of the biggest defenders of one of the biggest millstones around the taxpayer's neck in this country has lost absolutely all of their credibility on the issue.
If the unions themselves can't maintain the illusion that final salary pension schemes are viable, is this the beginning of this burden once and for all?
Fing is, traditionally, you'd get a s
t pay while you're working and that was made up for by the pension. I think that was the whole point. You could do a similar job in industry and be on 25-30% more. However, I think salaries are not so different nowadays plus their job is apparently more secure especially come recessions so who knows.
t pay while you're working and that was made up for by the pension. I think that was the whole point. You could do a similar job in industry and be on 25-30% more. However, I think salaries are not so different nowadays plus their job is apparently more secure especially come recessions so who knows.ShadownINja said:
Fing is, traditionally, you'd get a st pay while you're working and that was made up for by the pension. I think that was the whole point. You could do a similar job in industry and be on 25-30% more. However, I think salaries are not so different nowadays plus their job is apparently more secure especially come recessions so who knows.
The public sector is shortly about to be not such a great place to be.t pay while you're working and that was made up for by the pension. I think that was the whole point. You could do a similar job in industry and be on 25-30% more. However, I think salaries are not so different nowadays plus their job is apparently more secure especially come recessions so who knows.Job security WILL become an issue. I forsee a "bonfire of the quangos" first - as they are easy to simply pull the funding on. Followed by government departments getting both recruitment and pay freezes. I would be amazed if they actually reorganised away the non-jobs as this involves fights almost no government wants to have.
All you can do is make pay and conditions as s
t as possible so as many leave as can be made to do so for the private sector.Sadly this leaves only the altruistic dedicated and the terminally hopeless in government service. It was ever thus.
I sympathise with the Unison staff. But they are only in the same boat as the rest of us. If your pension fund gets taxed to the hilt and simply robbed of money by the government that's not a great start. When you factor in that the stock market has taken a bashing it's no wonder that they've come up short versus their liabilities.
It is ALSO no wonder that people are shying away from traditional pensions as they find that THEIR contributions are simply eaten up paying for the existing pensioners who are on better terms than they will ever get. f
k that, eh? Don said:
It is ALSO no wonder that people are shying away from traditional pensions as they find that THEIR contributions are simply eaten up paying for the existing pensioners who are on better terms than they will ever get. fk that, eh?
Funny you write this... NI is supposed to be your state pension but people say it's paying for today's pensioners. What's the reality?k that, eh? ShadownINja said:
Don said:
It is ALSO no wonder that people are shying away from traditional pensions as they find that THEIR contributions are simply eaten up paying for the existing pensioners who are on better terms than they will ever get. fk that, eh?
Funny you write this... NI is supposed to be your state pension but people say it's paying for today's pensioners. What's the reality?k that, eh? ShadownINja said:
Don said:
It is ALSO no wonder that people are shying away from traditional pensions as they find that THEIR contributions are simply eaten up paying for the existing pensioners who are on better terms than they will ever get. fk that, eh?
Funny you write this... NI is supposed to be your state pension but people say it's paying for today's pensioners. What's the reality?k that, eh? In a sense the Private Pension Funds work the same way, of course, although their money is also supposed to be being invested in order to provide a return that can pay the current liabilities (the pensioners).
An injustice can occur, however, if all members of a scheme are not "equal". i.e. Some have final-salary conditions that contractually guarantee them a superior pension, that they may well now be drawing whilst new members pay the same premiums but will never achieve the same payout. This situation is more common than might be thought...my wife has recently been forced into accepting a far worse pension deal than some of her recently retired colleagues.
Thanks for the replies.
k up. 
Asterix said:
We, the wife and I, haven't bothered with pensions. None of them seem to offer a decent return.
Just gone for other investments that we'll either reap the dividends or liquify when necessary.
This is my thinking, although I have a small pension with Aviva/NU just in case I fJust gone for other investments that we'll either reap the dividends or liquify when necessary.
k up. silver.fox.2008 said:
haworthlloyd1 said:
Asterix said:
We, the wife and I, haven't bothered with pensions. None of them seem to offer a decent return.
Just gone for other investments that we'll either reap the dividends or liquify when necessary.
what other investments?Just gone for other investments that we'll either reap the dividends or liquify when necessary.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Aren't you getting pensions and retirement mixed up? Anyone in the UK can retire whenever they like.I was trying to say that whilst the state pension age is 65 (currently), the Government does not dictate the age at which people retire, whether they are public or private sector. I'm sure lots of PHers in the private sector plan to retire well before they are 65. Your post suggested to me that people in the private sector have to wait until they are 65 before they are allowed to retire.
Kermit power said:
Well, I've looked through news & politics, plus done a search on "Unison" with no results, so I don't think the best bit of news for ages is a repost!
For those who've not seen it, Unison, that fine, up-standing defender of final salary pensions for public sector workers has come to the realisation that they can no longer afford their own final salary pension scheme.
Is it possible to have any other reaction than
On a more serious note, does anyone else think this is possibly the best bit of news we've had for ages? All of a sudden, one of the biggest defenders of one of the biggest millstones around the taxpayer's neck in this country has lost absolutely all of their credibility on the issue.
If the unions themselves can't maintain the illusion that final salary pension schemes are viable, is this the beginning of this burden once and for all?
Now that is amusing.For those who've not seen it, Unison, that fine, up-standing defender of final salary pensions for public sector workers has come to the realisation that they can no longer afford their own final salary pension scheme.
Is it possible to have any other reaction than
On a more serious note, does anyone else think this is possibly the best bit of news we've had for ages? All of a sudden, one of the biggest defenders of one of the biggest millstones around the taxpayer's neck in this country has lost absolutely all of their credibility on the issue.
If the unions themselves can't maintain the illusion that final salary pension schemes are viable, is this the beginning of this burden once and for all?
Asterix said:
silver.fox.2008 said:
haworthlloyd1 said:
Asterix said:
We, the wife and I, haven't bothered with pensions. None of them seem to offer a decent return.
Just gone for other investments that we'll either reap the dividends or liquify when necessary.
what other investments?Just gone for other investments that we'll either reap the dividends or liquify when necessary.
I find the attitude of what I'd suggest are the younger end on these pension threads quite depressing frankly.
Final salary pension schemes used to be in surplus, basically due to the prudent behaviour of trustees. We understand actuarial calculations, and we actually do understand the term prudence. Thus pensions funds were invested and nurtured on the basis of looking after the rainy day, be that a rainy day from the Company perspective, or a rainy day in the more general financial outlook.
Then we got a greedy Inland Revenue and a greedy Chancellor who basically screwed everything up for the private schemes.
Yet they didn't deal with the issue of the superannuated public sector.
In fact on the last election Two Jags even bought all the public sector votes by agreeing that their gold plated pensions would not be touched.
And now we are in this state.
Some of us have managed to handle pension schemes and still keep running private final salary schemes today even though they have had to be closed to new members there are a lot of active members. Lots of people have paid into final salary schemes for many years with no realistic chance to opt out, yes there is a legal way out, but not a realistic one for people with long term service. Firms are being backed into a corner on this by various actions of Govt, changes in legislation and accounting rules, constant doom mongering by tts like Peston and so on.
Furthermore the gloating shown on this thread is frankly puerile and pathetic. You sickening little children.
Those observations won't be welcome on here, and frankly I don't f******g care. Grow up and deal with the real villain in all this, i.e. Winky McF!
Final salary pension schemes used to be in surplus, basically due to the prudent behaviour of trustees. We understand actuarial calculations, and we actually do understand the term prudence. Thus pensions funds were invested and nurtured on the basis of looking after the rainy day, be that a rainy day from the Company perspective, or a rainy day in the more general financial outlook.
Then we got a greedy Inland Revenue and a greedy Chancellor who basically screwed everything up for the private schemes.
Yet they didn't deal with the issue of the superannuated public sector.
In fact on the last election Two Jags even bought all the public sector votes by agreeing that their gold plated pensions would not be touched.
And now we are in this state.
Some of us have managed to handle pension schemes and still keep running private final salary schemes today even though they have had to be closed to new members there are a lot of active members. Lots of people have paid into final salary schemes for many years with no realistic chance to opt out, yes there is a legal way out, but not a realistic one for people with long term service. Firms are being backed into a corner on this by various actions of Govt, changes in legislation and accounting rules, constant doom mongering by t
ts like Peston and so on.Furthermore the gloating shown on this thread is frankly puerile and pathetic. You sickening little children.
Those observations won't be welcome on here, and frankly I don't f******g care. Grow up and deal with the real villain in all this, i.e. Winky McF!
el stovey said:
Asterix said:
silver.fox.2008 said:
haworthlloyd1 said:
Asterix said:
We, the wife and I, haven't bothered with pensions. None of them seem to offer a decent return.
Just gone for other investments that we'll either reap the dividends or liquify when necessary.
what other investments?Just gone for other investments that we'll either reap the dividends or liquify when necessary.
Unless there is another huge/dramatic crash we should be fine - thinking long term so blips won't worry - even if there's still further to fall with the UK housing market, it doesn't matter as we don't need to sell.
Touch wood - while we've been lucky, we have grabbed a few things as they've popped up and seemed to have done ok.
Edited by Asterix on Wednesday 9th September 11:28
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