Petition to "apologize for the prosecution of Alan Turing"
Discussion
Details here;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8226509.stm
E-petition here;
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/turing/
As per the above really.
I personally feel that given the shower of b
ds we're typically forced to apologise to this man represents a genuine failure that our nation made.
Whilst an apology will make no difference to the man, it's one of those rare occasions when something should be acknowledged in my opinion.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8226509.stm
E-petition here;
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/turing/
As per the above really.
I personally feel that given the shower of b
ds we're typically forced to apologise to this man represents a genuine failure that our nation made. Whilst an apology will make no difference to the man, it's one of those rare occasions when something should be acknowledged in my opinion.
Edited by G_T on Tuesday 1st September 15:30
Doesn't say the prosecution was wrong, just that he was prosecuted. If that was the law then, why the petition now.
There is no doubt this mans genius in cracking the Germans code greatly assisted in saving lives, (with the exception of Coventry), so I am not sure why the petition has come to light 54 after his death?
Am I missing something?
There is no doubt this mans genius in cracking the Germans code greatly assisted in saving lives, (with the exception of Coventry), so I am not sure why the petition has come to light 54 after his death?
Am I missing something?
Edited by Vipers on Tuesday 1st September 15:29
Edited by Vipers on Tuesday 1st September 15:30
Try the new BBC news one.
Basically he was a practising homosexual and was accused of gross indeceny, chemically sterilised and then eventually committed suicide alledgedly because of his ongoing public humiliation.
This was a man who made noteable contributions to the war effort by means of code breaking and computing.
He was accused, convicted and tortured for a crime which has no moral basis in any society. The proposed petition is supposedly one more of recognition than of retribution.
Basically he was a practising homosexual and was accused of gross indeceny, chemically sterilised and then eventually committed suicide alledgedly because of his ongoing public humiliation.
This was a man who made noteable contributions to the war effort by means of code breaking and computing.
He was accused, convicted and tortured for a crime which has no moral basis in any society. The proposed petition is supposedly one more of recognition than of retribution.
I dont really understand this.
Although wrong in the eyes of todays society, what benefit is to be gained by digging up the past? What will change? What are these people hoping to gain out of a government apology?
It's not like it was THIS government who accused him. So why make them apologise for something another Government did over half a century ago?
It's not like Alan himself is going to hear the apology.
Don't quite understand the need to dig up the past.
Although wrong in the eyes of todays society, what benefit is to be gained by digging up the past? What will change? What are these people hoping to gain out of a government apology?
It's not like it was THIS government who accused him. So why make them apologise for something another Government did over half a century ago?
It's not like Alan himself is going to hear the apology.
Don't quite understand the need to dig up the past.
Spiritual_Beggar said:
I dont really understand this.
Although wrong in the eyes of todays society, what benefit is to be gained by digging up the past? What will change? What are these people hoping to gain out of a government apology?
It's not like it was THIS government who accused him. So why make them apologise for something another Government did over half a century ago?
It's not like Alan himself is going to hear the apology.
Don't quite understand the need to dig up the past.
Well that would certainly be an argument to the contrary. I'm not suggesting it's a clear cut issue.Although wrong in the eyes of todays society, what benefit is to be gained by digging up the past? What will change? What are these people hoping to gain out of a government apology?
It's not like it was THIS government who accused him. So why make them apologise for something another Government did over half a century ago?
It's not like Alan himself is going to hear the apology.
Don't quite understand the need to dig up the past.
In my opinion issues like this are still visible the world over. Whilst a government that wasn't involved can't make apologies to dead man, what it can do it stand up and acknowledge it's position on what happened. It is a rare opportunity to show the public, and the world who are following the story, how far we have come as a civilised society. Afterall it's an increasing common philosophy that the civilisation of a society can be measured by it's attitudes to it's homosexual citizens.
It's also an opportunity to further acknowledge the contributions of a man that was failed (and perhaps betrayed) by a country he was devoted to protecting. The e-petition is simple a means of communicating an issue more than a demand for an apology IMO. I don't think anybody actually expects Brown to apologise or "apologize".
Edited by G_T on Tuesday 1st September 15:56
It's part of an ongoing campagin to try to obtain funds for the upkeep of Bletchley Park.
It's (kind of) a publicity stunt - After all... we're all now talking about him!
If they were serious about the 'issue' at hand they would have included Oscar Wilde in there too!
...but it's just about money for Bletchley Park.
It's (kind of) a publicity stunt - After all... we're all now talking about him!
If they were serious about the 'issue' at hand they would have included Oscar Wilde in there too!
...but it's just about money for Bletchley Park.
Sounds very similar to the request for an appology for slavery this country took part in, or the length of time womens rights were ignored, or possibly even the wartime atrocities by english solders on german solders.
Completely pointless. Would be like demanding the current German goverment appologise for invading poland.
Completely pointless. Would be like demanding the current German goverment appologise for invading poland.
G_T said:
Well that would certainly be an argument to the contrary. I'm not suggesting it's a clear cut issue.
In my opinion issues like this are still visible the world over. Whilst a government that wasn't involved can't make apologies to dead man, what it can do it stand up and acknowledge it's position on what happened. It is a rare opportunity to show the public, and the world who are following the story, how far we have come as a civilised society. Afterall it's an increasing common philosophy that the civilisation of a society can be measured by it's attitudes to it's homosexual citizens.
It's also an opportunity to further acknowledge the contributions of a man that was failed (and perhaps betrayed) by a country he was devoted to protecting. The e-petition is simple a means of communicating an issue more than a demand for an apology IMO. I don't think anybody actually expects Brown to apologise or "apologize".
The thing is;In my opinion issues like this are still visible the world over. Whilst a government that wasn't involved can't make apologies to dead man, what it can do it stand up and acknowledge it's position on what happened. It is a rare opportunity to show the public, and the world who are following the story, how far we have come as a civilised society. Afterall it's an increasing common philosophy that the civilisation of a society can be measured by it's attitudes to it's homosexual citizens.
It's also an opportunity to further acknowledge the contributions of a man that was failed (and perhaps betrayed) by a country he was devoted to protecting. The e-petition is simple a means of communicating an issue more than a demand for an apology IMO. I don't think anybody actually expects Brown to apologise or "apologize".
Edited by G_T on Tuesday 1st September 15:56
How much weight does that apology then carry? The people who persecuted Alan are not going to be the ones to make the apology, and surely it's those peoples apologies and remorse that should matter.
For example; If you bullied a kid at school, and then I apologised to the kid a few years later, would that apology hold any weight, since it wasn't as if I was the one that was bullying him.
I don't see anything wrong in the Government making an apology. In fact I'd probably like to hear one. But it does make me question what point/ benefit is to gained from one.
Spiritual_Beggar said:
G_T said:
Well that would certainly be an argument to the contrary. I'm not suggesting it's a clear cut issue.
In my opinion issues like this are still visible the world over. Whilst a government that wasn't involved can't make apologies to dead man, what it can do it stand up and acknowledge it's position on what happened. It is a rare opportunity to show the public, and the world who are following the story, how far we have come as a civilised society. Afterall it's an increasing common philosophy that the civilisation of a society can be measured by it's attitudes to it's homosexual citizens.
It's also an opportunity to further acknowledge the contributions of a man that was failed (and perhaps betrayed) by a country he was devoted to protecting. The e-petition is simple a means of communicating an issue more than a demand for an apology IMO. I don't think anybody actually expects Brown to apologise or "apologize".
The thing is;In my opinion issues like this are still visible the world over. Whilst a government that wasn't involved can't make apologies to dead man, what it can do it stand up and acknowledge it's position on what happened. It is a rare opportunity to show the public, and the world who are following the story, how far we have come as a civilised society. Afterall it's an increasing common philosophy that the civilisation of a society can be measured by it's attitudes to it's homosexual citizens.
It's also an opportunity to further acknowledge the contributions of a man that was failed (and perhaps betrayed) by a country he was devoted to protecting. The e-petition is simple a means of communicating an issue more than a demand for an apology IMO. I don't think anybody actually expects Brown to apologise or "apologize".
Edited by G_T on Tuesday 1st September 15:56
How much weight does that apology then carry? The people who persecuted Alan are not going to be the ones to make the apology, and surely it's those peoples apologies and remorse that should matter.
For example; If you bullied a kid at school, and then I apologised to the kid a few years later, would that apology hold any weight, since it wasn't as if I was the one that was bullying him.
I don't see anything wrong in the Government making an apology. In fact I'd probably like to hear one. But it does make me question what point/ benefit is to gained from one.
I admit an apology is worthless in terms of an apology to the individual. However it does send a message of compassion and progression of our culture to the watching world.
As I said it's rare opportunity to stand up and say that we didn't agree with what happened and we don't agree with it happening elsewhere now.
G_T said:
I've just explained the perceived benefit? Whether you agree with it or not is your choice but I have explained as best I can my personal reason for signing it.
I admit an apology is worthless in terms of an apology to the individual. However it does send a message of compassion and progression of our culture to the watching world.
As I said it's rare opportunity to stand up and say that we didn't agree with what happened and we don't agree with it happening elsewhere now.
Yes, sorry....tbh, I hadn't fully read your previous post.I admit an apology is worthless in terms of an apology to the individual. However it does send a message of compassion and progression of our culture to the watching world.
As I said it's rare opportunity to stand up and say that we didn't agree with what happened and we don't agree with it happening elsewhere now.
But I wasn't quoting you to critisize.....just as a contiuation to the discussion. I'll be signing it when I get home as well. Like I said, I'd like to hear an apology, but I'm just trying to understand what (if anything) is actually gained by such sentiments.
It would be interesting to know how Alan's relatives, if any, would take such an apology.
Nope its simply being an appologist for the sake of it.
The only suitable appology for this is for the country to fight to become collectively educated enough to understand the error and change the law.
Tis done.
To all those who were shot for PTSD.....Tis done.
For all the times women were regarded as interlectually inferior.....Tis done.
To all those where colour of the skin was more important than the person.....Tis done.
Descrimination for homosexuality.......Tis done.
Handwringing counts for nothing.
The only suitable appology for this is for the country to fight to become collectively educated enough to understand the error and change the law.
Tis done.
To all those who were shot for PTSD.....Tis done.
For all the times women were regarded as interlectually inferior.....Tis done.
To all those where colour of the skin was more important than the person.....Tis done.
Descrimination for homosexuality.......Tis done.
Handwringing counts for nothing.
Reminds me of a family I knew who had a child killed at an unmanned zebra crossing at schools out time.
The counsel sent them a letter appologising for the death of their son, and that the matter would be looked into.
The father came and tore the letter up in front of me to show me what he thought of it. The only time I saw him even remotely improved was when he was patted on the back in the local pub by one of the other fathers when a crossing maid appreared at the crossing.
People see through hollow appologies, or thinly veiled publicity stunts. They aren't daft, and I think grief gives them a single minded focus. Change is what most of them want, and the feeling that their loved one died making sure it couldn't happen to someone else.
The counsel sent them a letter appologising for the death of their son, and that the matter would be looked into.
The father came and tore the letter up in front of me to show me what he thought of it. The only time I saw him even remotely improved was when he was patted on the back in the local pub by one of the other fathers when a crossing maid appreared at the crossing.
People see through hollow appologies, or thinly veiled publicity stunts. They aren't daft, and I think grief gives them a single minded focus. Change is what most of them want, and the feeling that their loved one died making sure it couldn't happen to someone else.
julian64 said:
Reminds me of a family I knew who had a child killed at an unmanned zebra crossing at schools out time.
The counsel sent them a letter appologising for the death of their son, and that the matter would be looked into.
The father came and tore the letter up in front of me to show me what he thought of it. The only time I saw him even remotely improved was when he was patted on the back in the local pub by one of the other fathers when a crossing maid appreared at the crossing.
People see through hollow appologies, or thinly veiled publicity stunts. They aren't daft, and I think grief gives them a single minded focus. Change is what most of them want, and the feeling that their loved one died making sure it couldn't happen to someone else.
Actions speak louder than words!The counsel sent them a letter appologising for the death of their son, and that the matter would be looked into.
The father came and tore the letter up in front of me to show me what he thought of it. The only time I saw him even remotely improved was when he was patted on the back in the local pub by one of the other fathers when a crossing maid appreared at the crossing.
People see through hollow appologies, or thinly veiled publicity stunts. They aren't daft, and I think grief gives them a single minded focus. Change is what most of them want, and the feeling that their loved one died making sure it couldn't happen to someone else.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff