Would you go to SA for the World Cup?

[glazbagun]

Read this article today:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa...

nearly 150 rapes a day reported! This being old news, of course; there being plenty of disturbing cases/articles in the past regarding it being a generally unpleasant place to be;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1909220.st...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_in_So...

Does anyone else think that WC2010 is going to be a disaster? Why on earth did they choose SA? Haven't been there, but on reputation alone I wouldn't go there even with mates, let alone with wife/gf/family. The turn out will probably be tiny from richer nations, and I can see the media having a field day if anything bad happens to tourists. I'm not a football nut, but I can't see myself going there even for a Senna/Clark/Moss/Schumi/Fangio race-off.

Edited by glazbagun on Wednesday 26th August 19:04

[Stu R]

It will, guarenteed. As beautiful as S.A remains, it's a pale imitation of it's former self these days. Shame really, but I'd still love to go back and enjoy the amazing parts that remain.

I wouldn't go there for the World cup, as I don't have any interest in football, but I'd definitely still go back.

[ewenm]

I was out near Cape Town for a training camp a few years ago - great fun, lovely people, fantastic place. Like anywhere, you need to be careful and some areas are not sensible to visit without a local or after dark.

I suspect security will be very tight for the World Cup but undoubtedly you'll get some (probably drunk) fans getting into trouble.

[dreamz]

i would but you'd have to stay in the right area's so to speak

if you go outside the secure zone that will be set up during the world cup then no one else to blame

i do think some horror stories will emerge though

[Bullett]

I was there last November on Honeymoon, so yes I would go (but I'm not a uge football fan so I will not)

You hear stories, and I don't think the olds were very impressed with our choice but I'd go back in a flash. Cape Town was cool and modern, Franshoek was just lovely, Jo'berg was another city (which we drove out of after a 1 night stay so didn't see much). The roads were generally very good. I didn't get anymore nervous than in London or New York but you avoid the rough bits and keep an eye out and all will be fine.

I think alot of the problems are in the ghetos still and you see alot of them, it's still very much black and white and not much mixing at least in most places where we went.

I guess the issue with footy will be pissed cocky brits getting themselves in trouble.

[sjn2004]

Just don't get arrested and popped into the cells for a night or two, you may never walk out again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q27xtHbgXcU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EDLLLJNUhI&fea...

Edited by sjn2004 on Thursday 27th August 00:07

[The jiffle king]

Went in 2006 in May and Cape town is fine during the day, but keep your wits about you. After dark, I´d take a taxi to be sure, but it should be a good tournament. Security will be very tight but act stupid in any city and you´ll get into trouble these days

T-J-K

[Kermit power]

I wouldn't go for the football, but that's because I can't stand football!

We went to South Africa on holiday in 2003. Loved it so much that we went back for our honeymoon the following year. I've also been out there on business 3 or 4 times.

Maybe as a better indicator of how safe the World Cup will be, how many horror stories did you see on the news about things happening to Lions fans last month? OK, the numbers are smaller than they would be at a World Cup, but it would've been headline news if anything major had happened I should think.

[nonplussed]

Bullett said:

I guess the issue with footy will be pissed cocky brits getting themselves in trouble.

Quite, I suspect there will be a fair few people f*cking with something they shouldn't have.

I've been there many times on business and it's perfectly fine if you do what most people here say - don't go out after dark, take taxis, just be a bit more careful than you would at home. You wouldn't just randomly walk around many parts of the US either so it's comparable in that way I guess.

If you do go, local wine and steak is cheap and goes well together. Accept no substitute

[Puggit]

I spent 6 weeks in Joburg and 2 in CT last year and saw zero bother.

A lot of the rapes (that are reported) are black on black. It is seen as a rite of passage by many of the tribes to force yourself on a woman.

As above, if you stay in the 'safe' areas, it's pretty safe. Just don't do anything stupid and be aware of your surroundings at all times.

Never wear an extravagant watch or use a mobile phone on the street. Always lock car doors and be prepared to move the car at a moments notice. If someone tells you to give them something, give it to them. Simples...

[okgo]

Having got a few SA freinds.

Its very clear that the place is not safe, everyone of them has been carjacked. They are rich white SA might I add, so they live in barbed wire estates as opposed to the sprawling black slums.

I went over there, and aside from the amazing natrual beatuy of the place, I thought it was very average, we couldn't really go out after dark in one guys house (joburg).. Not a way I could live, and people saying they felt just as nervoud driving through London?? Maybe if you left capetown (which tbh still has issues) you would see another side of that place.

I went to Joburg, Benoni, Durban, Cape Town, and if I wasn't with mates from those places, I would have felt nervous a fair few times..

I think sending a few thousand english out there will end in trouble, they don't fk around, neither do the cops, you can quite easily catch a proper beating from a police man, as I saw firsthand.

[Traveller]

SA has a violent crime problem, of that there is no doubt, but as long as you use a bit of common sense then you should be okay. Some areas are bad and best avoided, but that is not unlike a lot of countries. Although the bad areas really are bad, Hillbrow or Mitchells Plein being good examples of suburbs best avoided unless escorted. Cape town has managed to suppressed a lot of the violent crime, due to the tourist angle, and I expect the same strategy to be employed in the rest of the country come next year.

Never mind the crime, driving in SA is a more hazardous undertaking. Stay away from the minibus taxis, they are death traps on wheels. The government has been trying to improve them but still a large percentage are not roadworthy or driven by kamakazi pilots. If you are going to drive in the country, good luck, you will need it.

One thing I would not advise is a football "fan" trying it on with the SA police, it will result in much pain, trying to pull something like the Millwall match in SA, will result in broken bones and extended hospital stays for the participants. These are not bobbies who talk nicely, mouthing off and playing the hard man to an SA cop will be very detrimental to your health, besides the last place you want be is in a South African holding cell or jail, considering who your neighbours will be.

One last thing, do not sample the local hard working ladies of the night, HIV is rife and you will be playing Russian roulette.

Edited by Traveller on Thursday 27th August 11:13

[okgo]

Traveller said:

One thing I would not advise is a football "fan" trying it on with the SA police, it will result in much pain, trying to pull something like the Millwall match in SA, will result in broken bones and extended hospital stays for the participants. These are not bobbies who talk nicely, mouthing off and playing the hard man to an SA cop will be very detrimental to your health.

Edited by Traveller on Thursday 27th August 11:07

Oh yes.. I saw them laying into a black man, I heard his colleague shout "hit him in his stomach, they feel nothing in the head" massivly racist, but it seems to be a common opinion over there.

[Traveller]

okgo said:

Oh yes.. I saw them laying into a black man, I heard his colleague shout "hit him in his stomach, they feel nothing in the head" massivly racist, but it seems to be a common opinion over there.

The black / white racism is still there, under the surface now, but there is also a lot of inter tribal racism as well, the Zulu cannot stand the Sotho, the Xhosa do not like the Zulu and look down on the Sotho. A zulu cop will beat ten shades of Shyte out of a Sotho suspect, simply as a bonus for being Sotho. The country is nuts sometimes.

Edited by Traveller on Thursday 27th August 11:21

[jimmyb]

Sadly due to it being football odds are there is going to be some bad press as cops in sa do not take any st. They tend to carry guns and will shoot if threatened.
The public side of things is also not a good thing for footy thugs and in fact any footie thug thinking of going over is much better off staying at home as no matter how hard they think they are the guys in sa put no value on life and will think nothing of killing someone for picking a fight.

For those with a brain sa is fine. Yes there is a crime problem but so long as you excercise common sense you should be perfectly safe. I always find it weird to hear these stories like from okgo of "all my friends in sa have been hijacked" as i lived there all my life as has my family and extended and none of us has ever been hijacked or attacked. Sure my dad has his cellphone nicked twice but that was no biggie.

Only ever met one person from SA who was hijacked and that was a girl from Joburg who i met in london.

[Muntu]

Traveller said:

there is also a lot of inter tribal racism as well

That will be tribalism then.

[Traveller]

Muntu said:

That will be tribalism then.

Well that is a useful contribution to the thread, thanks for that.

Edited by Traveller on Saturday 29th August 22:40

[Muntu]

Traveller said:

Muntu said:

That will be tribalism then.

Well that is a useful contribution to the thread, thanks for that.

Edited by Traveller on Saturday 29th August 22:40

You gave good advice, I was merely pointing out that inter tribal violence isn't actually racism, it is tribalism.

Somebody has a hair up their arce, and it isn't me

[ewenm]

Muntu said:

Traveller said:

Muntu said:

That will be tribalism then.

Well that is a useful contribution to the thread, thanks for that.

Edited by Traveller on Saturday 29th August 22:40

You gave good advice, I was merely pointing out that inter tribal violence isn't actually racism, it is tribalism.

Technically correct, but thanks to our media racism doesn't actually mean racism in the literal sense.

[Muntu]

ewenm said:

Muntu said:

Traveller said:

Muntu said:

That will be tribalism then.

Well that is a useful contribution to the thread, thanks for that.

Edited by Traveller on Saturday 29th August 22:40

You gave good advice, I was merely pointing out that inter tribal violence isn't actually racism, it is tribalism.

Technically correct, but thanks to our media racism doesn't actually mean racism in the literal sense.

I like to think that fellow PH'ers have a few brain cells to rub together though, and can post an opinion that is exclusively theirs