Parts of the UK are like "The Wire" claim conservatives...

[dreamz]

[i]The Conservatives have compared parts of the UK to The Wire, a US television show which portrays inner-city drugs and violence.

In a speech, shadow home secretary Chris Grayling argued that the UK was suffering the same culture of gangs and street violence found in the US.

He said Labour had failed to ensure law and order was preserved in the poorest parts of the country.

But Home Secretary Alan Johnson said the comparison to The Wire was "glib".

Mr Johnson said gun-related crime was falling and the police should be supported not attacked for their efforts. [/i]

considering baltimore had over 280 murders compared to around 30 of manchester...

[Parrot of Doom]

Most of Manchester's gun crime was down to one gang, now locked away. Politicians really do rely on statistics far too often.

[EDLT]

Is that 282 murders per year, or just this week?

[Jimbeaux]

EDLT said:

Is that 282 murders per year, or just this week?

ummm, that would be a year. That would also be within a tight geographic area.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Wednesday 26th August 01:51

[6655321]

What are the figures for London?

[Marquis_Rex]

The differences is that some enlightened souls encourage different demographs in the UK to 'mix' in various neighborhoods, and that along with ridiculous house prices means that people who've saved hard and bought a nice Porsche/BMW in an area inevitably end up having them smashed or vandalised-especially when you couple this with Englands inherent jealousy culture.

At least in the USA there are loads of very safe, clean decent areas in many surburbs thanks to a pragmatic view and ghettos

[T89 Callan]

EDLT said:

Is that 282 murders per year, or just this weeks episode of The Wire?

EFA

I hate these headline grabbing sound bites that politicians use, they're pathetic and dangerous.

I really am starting to reconsider were my vote will go next year (it definately won't go to labour). Are the Conservaties trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

All they need to do is keep there fking heads down and make sure they don't say anything retarded.... which they seem incapable of.

[Captain Cadillac]

First,

There is NO place in the UK that I have ever seen which can compare to the worst parts of Baltimore. But as has been said, crime over here isn't like it is in the UK, one of the things that you notice in the UK versus in America is that crime seems to be everywhere, whereas over here it's generally concentrated in bad areas. If someone were to get shot in the town that I live in it would be huge front page news, ditto a stabbing or carjacking. Where I live, car theft, burglary, vandalism, they just don't happen.

Drive 20 minutes south into Newark? Some areas are extremely dangerous.

[6655321]

I don't even lock my front door. Hell, I leave my window/sunroof open when I go out! I'd never do that in the UK... The one BIG difference between the US and the UK is getting into an altercation of some sort. in the UK the worst it might get to, (in general), is having the st kicked out of you. in the US, you never know if the redneck weirdo has a gun.

[Baby Huey]

Captain Cadillac said:

Where I live, car theft, burglary, vandalism, they just don't happen

Same for my parents, they live in the UK.

[Digga]

Parrot of Doom said:

Most of Manchester's gun crime was down to one gang, now locked away. Politicians really do rely on statistics far too often.

True, and even then, the violence was generally very specifically targeted.

When I was a (fking) student in Mcr, I lived in Whalley Range and walking to and from college through two of the worst areas, Moss Side and Hulme and not once had any bother. In that same year there were multiple shootings and even someone machetted do death in the next road, but it never affected me or anyone I knew.

Of course you could see things - gangs of guys in Sierra Cosworths and BMWs lurking about the place - but mostly you just heard it on the news and aside from some unlucky individuals caught in crossfire, it seemed to be gang to gang violence.

[JJCW]

The murder stats in the UK are much lower, but look at the violent crime rates! Much higher!! (Or am i reading it wrong?)

[Digga]

JJCW said:

The murder stats in the UK are much lower, but look at the violent crime rates! Much higher!! (Or am i reading it wrong?)

Yes, clearly they don't mess about dishing out wedgies and chinese burns in Baltimore - they go straight for the kill. No style!

[JagLover]

JJCW said:

The murder stats in the UK are much lower, but look at the violent crime rates! Much higher!! (Or am i reading it wrong?)

Nope

In many areas of crime England & Wales is worse than America (excepting only murder which is explained mostly by the far easier availability of firearms)

Given that most murders are gang shootings the average member of the public is a good deal safer in the US than here.

[maxrider]

6655321 said:

in the UK the worst it might get to, (in general), is having the life kicked out of you.

EFA

[Digga]

maxrider said:

6655321 said:

in the UK the worst it might get to, (in general), is having the life kicked out of you.

EFA

Which is handy for the figures because, unlike a shooting, it is usually possible for the defence to argue there was no intent to kill and so it doesn't hit the murder stats...

[zcacogp]

Marquis_Rex said:

The differences is that some enlightened souls encourage different demographs in the UK to 'mix' in various neighborhoods, and that along with ridiculous house prices means that people who've saved hard and bought a nice Porsche/BMW in an area inevitably end up having them smashed or vandalised-especially when you couple this with Englands inherent jealousy culture.

At least in the USA there are loads of very safe, clean decent areas in many surburbs thanks to a pragmatic view and ghettos

Damn right, M_R. The social housing policy in the UK has a lot to answer for.

Being honest - I'm not that concerned about gang violence, as long as it is contained. It's when people from such a mindset get placed in 'social housing' in the middle of a quieter, more desirable area that problems start happening.

(If this sounds like excess NIMBYism then you have misunderstood.)


Oli.

[Jimbeaux]

6655321 said:

I don't even lock my front door. Hell, I leave my window/sunroof open when I go out! I'd never do that in the UK... The one BIG difference between the US and the UK is getting into an altercation of some sort. in the UK the worst it might get to, (in general), is having the st kicked out of you. in the US, you never know if the redneck weirdo has a gun.

True, but it is more the inner city gangbanger that is likely to have the gun and use it as oppossed to the "weirdo redneck".

Edited by Jimbeaux on Wednesday 26th August 12:18

[AshVX220]

So how do these Stats (particularly the ones highlighted by JJCW above) make the PH lot feel about UK Gun Law?

If our Gun Law were as relaxed as the US, what would happen to those Stats? Would the murder Stat increase to beat the likes of Baltimore (per captia)?

I'm of the camp that wishes Gun Law wasn't as strict as it is, I loved shooting pistol's in the RN and would have liked to have taken it up as a Hobby. However, I don't think it should be as relaxed as the US.

I think that in general people (read as Chavs) don't understand the lethality of a single stab or gunshot wound? Is this because they see too many films where the hero can carry on fighting after being stabbed or shot loads of times? Or too much survivable voilence in video games? Thoughts, anyone?

[Police State]

Parrot of Doom said:

Most of Manchester's gun crime was down to one gang, now locked away. Politicians really do rely on statistics far too often.

the MP wasn't talking numbers exclusively, he was talking about culture; and he is bang on the money.