Windymill question

[s2art]

Anyone on here know much about windmills? I was wondering how the power generated can be brought into phase with the grid. You would think that the harder the wind blows the faster they turn. Do they generate DC which is then converted?

[Horse_Apple]

s2art said:

Anyone on here know much about windmills? I was wondering how the power generated can be brought into phase with the grid. You would think that the harder the wind blows the faster they turn. Do they generate DC which is then converted?

I was under the impression that they disn't work that way and that they power was used to pump water uphill to be released later when electricity was required from the grid. May be completely wrong.

[s2art]

Horse_Apple said:

s2art said:

Anyone on here know much about windmills? I was wondering how the power generated can be brought into phase with the grid. You would think that the harder the wind blows the faster they turn. Do they generate DC which is then converted?

I was under the impression that they disn't work that way and that they power was used to pump water uphill to be released later when electricity was required from the grid. May be completely wrong.

That would be a good way to store energy, but you still have to get the electricity to the pumps, either in phase or DC.

[HOGEPH]

This bloke was considered to be the expert on windmill related matters.

[Parrot of Doom]

Windmills don't generate electricity, they are fed from the grid and create the wind. Without windmills the clouds wouldn't move.

[s2art]

Parrot of Doom said:

Windmills don't generate electricity, they are fed from the grid and create the wind. Without windmills the clouds wouldn't move.

I suspected as much.

[eldar]

s2art said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Windmills don't generate electricity, they are fed from the grid and create the wind. Without windmills the clouds wouldn't move.

I suspected as much.

Plus they look silly sitting there not turning.

[hairykrishna]

s2art said:

Anyone on here know much about windmills? I was wondering how the power generated can be brought into phase with the grid. You would think that the harder the wind blows the faster they turn. Do they generate DC which is then converted?

~700V 3-phase generators on the big ones I think. They feed into essentially a little substation that steps it up to 10's of kV to squirt into the local grid. Most of them run at effectively constant speed by varying the blade angles.

[s2art]

hairykrishna said:

s2art said:

Anyone on here know much about windmills? I was wondering how the power generated can be brought into phase with the grid. You would think that the harder the wind blows the faster they turn. Do they generate DC which is then converted?

~700V 3-phase generators on the big ones I think. They feed into essentially a little substation that steps it up to 10's of kV to squirt into the local grid. Most of them run at effectively constant speed by varying the blade angles.

Yes, it looks like generated in AC, converted to DC, converted back to AC with lots of effort to get it smooth enough. God only knows what efficiency that is when transmission losses are included.
So the power rating for these beasts is measured where?

[Parrot of Doom]

s2art said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Windmills don't generate electricity, they are fed from the grid and create the wind. Without windmills the clouds wouldn't move.

I suspected as much.

Have you ever seen a windmill turning on a non-windy day?

Nope.

[s2art]

Parrot of Doom said:

s2art said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Windmills don't generate electricity, they are fed from the grid and create the wind. Without windmills the clouds wouldn't move.

I suspected as much.

Have you ever seen a windmill turning on a non-windy day?

Nope.

Flawless logic.

[elster]

s2art said:

hairykrishna said:

s2art said:

Anyone on here know much about windmills? I was wondering how the power generated can be brought into phase with the grid. You would think that the harder the wind blows the faster they turn. Do they generate DC which is then converted?

~700V 3-phase generators on the big ones I think. They feed into essentially a little substation that steps it up to 10's of kV to squirt into the local grid. Most of them run at effectively constant speed by varying the blade angles.

Yes, it looks like generated in AC, converted to DC, converted back to AC with lots of effort to get it smooth enough. God only knows what efficiency that is when transmission losses are included.
So the power rating for these beasts is measured where?

I don't think they are allowed to measure it. This is due to the fact the myth they are useful would become flawed then.

[eldar]

elster said:

s2art said:

hairykrishna said:

s2art said:

Anyone on here know much about windmills? I was wondering how the power generated can be brought into phase with the grid. You would think that the harder the wind blows the faster they turn. Do they generate DC which is then converted?

~700V 3-phase generators on the big ones I think. They feed into essentially a little substation that steps it up to 10's of kV to squirt into the local grid. Most of them run at effectively constant speed by varying the blade angles.

Yes, it looks like generated in AC, converted to DC, converted back to AC with lots of effort to get it smooth enough. God only knows what efficiency that is when transmission losses are included.
So the power rating for these beasts is measured where?

I don't think they are allowed to measure it. This is due to the fact the myth they are useful would become flawed then.

They do measure it, but they use the SI unit 'household', which is useful, as that unit means whatever you want it to. 'This windfarm will produce enough electricity tp power 18,000 households', which sounds kind of impressive. Until you realise that a)they mean Indian households, which is the equivalent of 1 AA battery, and b) only between 02:00 and 02:07 on the 3rd Sunday in May, assuming its windy.


Actually finding out what percentage of capacity is actually generated is hard

[elster]

eldar said:

elster said:

s2art said:

hairykrishna said:

s2art said:

Anyone on here know much about windmills? I was wondering how the power generated can be brought into phase with the grid. You would think that the harder the wind blows the faster they turn. Do they generate DC which is then converted?

~700V 3-phase generators on the big ones I think. They feed into essentially a little substation that steps it up to 10's of kV to squirt into the local grid. Most of them run at effectively constant speed by varying the blade angles.

Yes, it looks like generated in AC, converted to DC, converted back to AC with lots of effort to get it smooth enough. God only knows what efficiency that is when transmission losses are included.
So the power rating for these beasts is measured where?

I don't think they are allowed to measure it. This is due to the fact the myth they are useful would become flawed then.

They do measure it, but they use the SI unit 'household', which is useful, as that unit means whatever you want it to. 'This windfarm will produce enough electricity tp power 18,000 households', which sounds kind of impressive. Until you realise that a)they mean Indian households, which is the equivalent of 1 AA battery, and b) only between 02:00 and 02:07 on the 3rd Sunday in May, assuming its windy.


Actually finding out what percentage of capacity is actually generated is hard

I have a rough idea of how much they claim they produce and reality.

The really big fkers claim to make "up to 5MW", this is a bit like the broadband up to numbers. Reality more like up to 3MW. However for a yearly average comes out between 1 and 2.

These were the rough numbers given in a talk I went to, by a man from Siemens.

[Parrot of Doom]

s2art said:

Parrot of Doom said:

s2art said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Windmills don't generate electricity, they are fed from the grid and create the wind. Without windmills the clouds wouldn't move.

I suspected as much.

Have you ever seen a windmill turning on a non-windy day?

Nope.

Flawless logic.

You're obviously in on the conspiracy.

[eldar]

elster said:

eldar said:

elster said:

s2art said:

hairykrishna said:

s2art said:

Anyone on here know much about windmills? I was wondering how the power generated can be brought into phase with the grid. You would think that the harder the wind blows the faster they turn. Do they generate DC which is then converted?

~700V 3-phase generators on the big ones I think. They feed into essentially a little substation that steps it up to 10's of kV to squirt into the local grid. Most of them run at effectively constant speed by varying the blade angles.

Yes, it looks like generated in AC, converted to DC, converted back to AC with lots of effort to get it smooth enough. God only knows what efficiency that is when transmission losses are included.
So the power rating for these beasts is measured where?

I don't think they are allowed to measure it. This is due to the fact the myth they are useful would become flawed then.

They do measure it, but they use the SI unit 'household', which is useful, as that unit means whatever you want it to. 'This windfarm will produce enough electricity tp power 18,000 households', which sounds kind of impressive. Until you realise that a)they mean Indian households, which is the equivalent of 1 AA battery, and b) only between 02:00 and 02:07 on the 3rd Sunday in May, assuming its windy.


Actually finding out what percentage of capacity is actually generated is hard

I have a rough idea of how much they claim they produce and reality.

The really big fkers claim to make "up to 5MW", this is a bit like the broadband up to numbers. Reality more like up to 3MW. However for a yearly average comes out between 1 and 2.

These were the rough numbers given in a talk I went to, by a man from Siemens.

That would be German figures, I suspect, they are rather more open than us. I've been trying to find out what wind power was produced in Feb 2008, and its just not available. As you say, lots of 'up to', but not actuals, that is commercially sensitive.

[s2art]

elster said:

eldar said:

elster said:

s2art said:

hairykrishna said:

s2art said:

Anyone on here know much about windmills? I was wondering how the power generated can be brought into phase with the grid. You would think that the harder the wind blows the faster they turn. Do they generate DC which is then converted?

~700V 3-phase generators on the big ones I think. They feed into essentially a little substation that steps it up to 10's of kV to squirt into the local grid. Most of them run at effectively constant speed by varying the blade angles.

Yes, it looks like generated in AC, converted to DC, converted back to AC with lots of effort to get it smooth enough. God only knows what efficiency that is when transmission losses are included.
So the power rating for these beasts is measured where?

I don't think they are allowed to measure it. This is due to the fact the myth they are useful would become flawed then.

They do measure it, but they use the SI unit 'household', which is useful, as that unit means whatever you want it to. 'This windfarm will produce enough electricity tp power 18,000 households', which sounds kind of impressive. Until you realise that a)they mean Indian households, which is the equivalent of 1 AA battery, and b) only between 02:00 and 02:07 on the 3rd Sunday in May, assuming its windy.


Actually finding out what percentage of capacity is actually generated is hard

I have a rough idea of how much they claim they produce and reality.

The really big fkers claim to make "up to 5MW", this is a bit like the broadband up to numbers. Reality more like up to 3MW. However for a yearly average comes out between 1 and 2.

These were the rough numbers given in a talk I went to, by a man from Siemens.

But is that at the blade or actual power available to the grid?

[s3fella]

eldar said:

s2art said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Windmills don't generate electricity, they are fed from the grid and create the wind. Without windmills the clouds wouldn't move.

I suspected as much.

Plus they look silly sitting there not turning.

They AREN'T turning................


We all are..........

[VX Foxy]

Anyone on here involved in the industry?

Edited by VX Foxy on Friday 14th August 23:33

[Pobolycwm]

HOGEPH said:

This bloke was considered to be the expert on windmill related matters.

But why was Windy never decapitated walking back into the windmill ?