Mandy proposes positive discrimination for Uni places
Discussion
Times online (read it while it's free)
Times said:
Lord Mandelson is drawing up plans to overhaul university entry that could see applicants from poor families awarded a two-grade “head start” over better-off candidates.
One of the effects would be to “bump out” many middle-class candidates at high-performing independent and grammar schools from popular courses at leading universities.
Mandelson, the first secretary of state, has told his officials to report back to him on schemes run by Leeds University and two London medical schools that give lower A-level offers to candidates from disadvantaged families.
He sees such changes not as positive discrimination but as a policy at the heart of Labour’s drive to improve social mobility in Britain.
One of the effects would be to “bump out” many middle-class candidates at high-performing independent and grammar schools from popular courses at leading universities.
Mandelson, the first secretary of state, has told his officials to report back to him on schemes run by Leeds University and two London medical schools that give lower A-level offers to candidates from disadvantaged families.
He sees such changes not as positive discrimination but as a policy at the heart of Labour’s drive to improve social mobility in Britain.
Who was it that voted this shower in?
Was it their core supporters? Nope. There haven't been enough of those in decades.
Was it the Tory core voters? Nope. Of course not.
Was it the floating voters? Yep. The people who are happy to change what party they vote for based on what politicians say, how handsome the party leader is and whether or not they approve of their policies. The hard-working coping class that was so sick of Major back in 97.
I remember back then when the Major government became dysfunctional. This lot are doing it now.
They have no chance of re-election and might as well piss about in the mean time.
This is part of that pissing about.
Was it their core supporters? Nope. There haven't been enough of those in decades.
Was it the Tory core voters? Nope. Of course not.
Was it the floating voters? Yep. The people who are happy to change what party they vote for based on what politicians say, how handsome the party leader is and whether or not they approve of their policies. The hard-working coping class that was so sick of Major back in 97.
I remember back then when the Major government became dysfunctional. This lot are doing it now.
They have no chance of re-election and might as well piss about in the mean time.
This is part of that pissing about.
Jasandjules said:
1. University should be free for those who are bright enough
2. There should be grants to ensure that those who could not otherwise afford to attend can do so.
This was exactly how it used to be. The definition of "bright enough" was made by passing rather difficult exams called A - levels. Simply doing A-levels put you in the top 5% of the population academically. Getting three As put you in the top 1%.2. There should be grants to ensure that those who could not otherwise afford to attend can do so.
Back in those days you could get into good universities with a couple of Cs and a D at A level because even getting that was hard enough.
But guess what? It turned out that academic excellence has a very strong correlation with the quality of the school and the quality of the parenting of the kids in its cachement area, which in turn correlates with the quality or "niceness" of the area, which in turn meant a very strong correlation with university entrance and the "middle-classes".
Jasandjules said:
Sadly, it's Nu Laba's policy of tuition fees which has reduced the social mobility they claim to wish to improve.
Partly.It had also been their policy to call any and all further education the same thing - "University".
You didn't used to go to University to become a mechanic or a hairdresser you got an apprenticeship.
You didn't go to university to become a IT professional - often you went to "Polytechnic" - I know I did.
What Labour have got wrong is that in trying to get society to value all its members equally it has simply reduced the education system to something that can only cope with the lowest common denominator. This is a betrayal of our young people who should still have a wide variety of educational opportunities in front of them so that they can find that which caters to their needs - rather than the one-size-fits-all-you-go-to-university approach this lot seem to favour.
k is he doing creating policy?Don said:
Who was it that voted this shower in?
Was it their core supporters? Nope. There haven't been enough of those in decades.
Was it the Tory core voters? Nope. Of course not.
Was it the floating voters? Yep. The people who are happy to change what party they vote for based on what politicians say, how handsome the party leader is and whether or not they approve of their policies. The hard-working coping class that was so sick of Major back in 97.
I remember back then when the Major government became dysfunctional. This lot are doing it now.
They have no chance of re-election and might as well piss about in the mean time.
This is part of that pissing about.
Well, nobody voted Mentalson in. He's an unelected ex-fraudster.Was it their core supporters? Nope. There haven't been enough of those in decades.
Was it the Tory core voters? Nope. Of course not.
Was it the floating voters? Yep. The people who are happy to change what party they vote for based on what politicians say, how handsome the party leader is and whether or not they approve of their policies. The hard-working coping class that was so sick of Major back in 97.
I remember back then when the Major government became dysfunctional. This lot are doing it now.
They have no chance of re-election and might as well piss about in the mean time.
This is part of that pissing about.
Jasandjules said:
1. University should be free for those who are bright enough
2. There should be grants to ensure that those who could not otherwise afford to attend can do so.
Sadly, it's Nu Laba's policy of tuition fees which has reduced the social mobility they claim to wish to improve.
2. There should be grants to ensure that those who could not otherwise afford to attend can do so.
Sadly, it's Nu Laba's policy of tuition fees which has reduced the social mobility they claim to wish to improve.
What Mandy also said was "Labour was wrong to try to abolish grammar schools (and partly succeed) as they were efficient social mobility engines for disadvantaged clever kids, so now we need to blame universities and impose a bodge on the admissions systems through our usual incompetent meddling"
Jasandjules said:
1. University should be free for those who are bright enough
2. There should be grants to ensure that those who could not otherwise afford to attend can do so.
Sadly, it's Nu Laba's policy of tuition fees which has reduced the social mobility they claim to wish to improve.
BINGO. That's it. 2. There should be grants to ensure that those who could not otherwise afford to attend can do so.
Sadly, it's Nu Laba's policy of tuition fees which has reduced the social mobility they claim to wish to improve.
thinfourth2 said:
Wouldn't it be easier to just give all the chavs a free degree in whatever they want
Think of how much could be saved on actually teaching them anything
Well, they wouldn't be taught anything if they went to university anyway, because they would behave just the way they do at school.Think of how much could be saved on actually teaching them anything
This is a continuation of Labour's drive to impose equality by pushing everybody down to the same low level.
ETA: the result of this would be that the elite students would go to US universities and would still dominate the professions here if they deigned to come back.
Edited by Zod on Sunday 9th August 14:04
otolith said:
How about just sorting out the state education system so that kids with potential get the f***ing grades?
It's as much the fault of the parents in many cases. If your folks are layabout losers, it's tremendously tempting to aspire to those same standards.Need to review the Childline services:
Young Lad: Hello? Is that Childline?
Childline: Yes it is how can we help?
Young Lad: I'm fed up with my parents. My dad has been on a sickie since before I was born and my mum is a chip-fat heifer. They don't help me with my homework and sold my desk to buy fags.
Child Line: We're very sorry to hear that
Young Lad: Could you send round a Darwin Team to get rid of them please?
Child Line: No problem, son. They're on their way...
Don said:
What Labour have got wrong is that in trying to get society to value all its members equally it has simply reduced the education system to something that can only cope with the lowest common denominator. This is a betrayal of our young people who should still have a wide variety of educational opportunities in front of them so that they can find that which caters to their needs - rather than the one-size-fits-all-you-go-to-university approach this lot seem to favour.
It's also a betrayal of those academics out there who actually still care about teaching quality and find themselves under *immense* pressure from their institutions to "award highly" and ignore discipline issues. Just take a look through the Time Higher Education Supplement to see the reality of this and the discontent it is building. University administrators play the party line and front-line staff are put in a position where they have to compromise their professional integrity. Degrees (even some masters) have become commodities as a result. TVR Moneypit said:
I certainly wouldn't put money on Labour losing the next GE, (whenever that may be).
I'd put money on it - but the odds are, or were, appalling. At the end of June the Conservatives were 1/12 to win most seats in the GE, Cameron 4/9 to be next PM (Ladbrokes), can't remember the odds for a workable majority and I haven't checked since, though it's unlikely to be any 'worse' as far as a Conservatives victory concerned. Also iirc most polls say that another leader such as the Union guy or another unknown nobody would make little difference.
TVR Moneypit said:
I know what the bookies say, but given this showers track record, nothing, nothing would suprise me.
They'll be on the blower right now taking tips from Robert Muggabe.
Labour = bent crooks.
They'll be on the blower right now taking tips from Robert Muggabe.
Labour = bent crooks.
You're right about nu labia but I don't think enough of the electorate are buying it these days for them to have a hope. They're looking to do as much socialist damage as possible to leave trouble for the incoming Conservative government in the hope of new leader Mandy getting the country back into the hands of incompetents after the necessary national medicine has been prescribed. Even then I'd say that this country these days seems to give governments two or three terms, and if anything remotely useful happens in that time then the crypto-socialists or whatever they are will be out for a decade, maybe two.
Zod said:
thinfourth2 said:
Wouldn't it be easier to just give all the chavs a free degree in whatever they want
Think of how much could be saved on actually teaching them anything
Well, they wouldn't be taught anything if they went to university anyway, because they would behave just the way they do at school.Think of how much could be saved on actually teaching them anything
All that would happen is that the rate of drop-out would rocket as they find that they simply can't do the work. It's already bad enough when universities are forced to lay on remedial classes in English and Maths because the A* students coming in are incapable of pushing a noun against a verb or doing the most basic of arithmetic. If this goes ahead it can only get worse.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff