What's Waterboarding?
Discussion
Lefty Guns said:
Seriously? Did you leave the planet for the last 4 years or so? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
Read and watch the following. Renowned journo Peter Hitchens volunteers to be waterboarded. And they say this does not constitute torture?????
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/0...
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/0...
Edited by rocksteadyeddie on Tuesday 14th July 10:26
angryS3owner said:
I'm not sure I care, if I'd have been in the place of these CIA agents at the time I'd probably have done anything it would take to get any information if I truely believe the person in front of me to be hiding information that might save lives.
Well good for you. But torture doesn't work - it makes people tell you stuff to make you stop, but not necessarily the truth (if they even know the information you wanted in the first place). It also really turns people against you if you do it to someone who was innocent!angryS3owner said:
I'm not sure I care, if I'd have been in the place of these CIA agents at the time I'd probably have done anything it would take to get any information if I truely believe the person in front of me to be hiding information that might save lives.
The circumstances under which torture is a useful tool are so narrow in definition when weighed against the costs of habitually indulging in the practice as to render it self-defeating.PS too much watching 24 is bad for you!!
rocksteadyeddie said:
PS too much watching 24 is bad for you!!
I hope that wasn't aimed at me, not watched a single episode since the very first one.I'm not saying torture of any form is a great idea, but I do think in some situations it's justified and this is one of them, even if they only got one useful accurate piece of information our of him I think it's a job well done.
angryS3owner said:
rocksteadyeddie said:
PS too much watching 24 is bad for you!!
I hope that wasn't aimed at me, not watched a single episode since the very first one.I'm not saying torture of any form is a great idea, but I do think in some situations it's justified and this is one of them, even if they only got one useful accurate piece of information our of him I think it's a job well done.
ShadownINja said:
Is tickling ok? I mean the victim appears happy at the time of the tickling. In fact, they appear positively ecstatic.
I like your style ShadownINja. Stealth and the unexpected are the ways to get information - maybe a nice choccie biccie (from one of those Swiss selection tins with extra thick chocolate) will be the final weapon to loosen tongues.rocksteadyeddie said:
angryS3owner said:
I'm not sure I care, if I'd have been in the place of these CIA agents at the time I'd probably have done anything it would take to get any information if I truely believe the person in front of me to be hiding information that might save lives.
The circumstances under which torture is a useful tool are so narrow in definition when weighed against the costs of habitually indulging in the practice as to render it self-defeating.PS too much watching 24 is bad for you!!
[/quotReally?
So, to torture a few people with no gain, outweighs torturing 1 more person, to get the information that saves dozens?
angryS3owner said:
rocksteadyeddie said:
PS too much watching 24 is bad for you!!
I hope that wasn't aimed at me, not watched a single episode since the very first one.I'm not saying torture of any form is a great idea, but I do think in some situations it's justified and this is one of them, even if they only got one useful accurate piece of information our of him I think it's a job well done.
Please note point b). There is no upside to torture.
Airbag said:
angryS3owner said:
rocksteadyeddie said:
PS too much watching 24 is bad for you!!
I hope that wasn't aimed at me, not watched a single episode since the very first one.I'm not saying torture of any form is a great idea, but I do think in some situations it's justified and this is one of them, even if they only got one useful accurate piece of information our of him I think it's a job well done.
Please note point b). There is no upside to torture.
Anyway I don't find this torture. Surely torture would actually be damaging, not fooling someone.
elster said:
Airbag said:
angryS3owner said:
rocksteadyeddie said:
PS too much watching 24 is bad for you!!
I hope that wasn't aimed at me, not watched a single episode since the very first one.I'm not saying torture of any form is a great idea, but I do think in some situations it's justified and this is one of them, even if they only got one useful accurate piece of information our of him I think it's a job well done.
Please note point b). There is no upside to torture.
Anyway I don't find this torture. Surely torture would actually be damaging, not fooling someone.
FFS
I suspect such statistics can't be pubished for "national security" reasons! Oh, and because they would demonstrate that torture doesn't work.
On the basis that under your definition anything that does not cause damage is not torture the following would therefore be permitted would they?
Electrocution
Beating
Stress positions
Sleep deprivation
Suffocation to the point of unconciousness
I am not some mealy-mouthed liberal. I'm all for putting "them" up against a brick wall and stoning "them" to death. The issue is always in defining "them" and outside of television this is incredibly difficult. Torture will get you the information you want to hear in most cases. If that's all you want then perfect. Otherwise we need to be a bit smarter than that.
On the basis that under your definition anything that does not cause damage is not torture the following would therefore be permitted would they?
Electrocution
Beating
Stress positions
Sleep deprivation
Suffocation to the point of unconciousness
I am not some mealy-mouthed liberal. I'm all for putting "them" up against a brick wall and stoning "them" to death. The issue is always in defining "them" and outside of television this is incredibly difficult. Torture will get you the information you want to hear in most cases. If that's all you want then perfect. Otherwise we need to be a bit smarter than that.
k sake if you can't provide a better definitionHow many people have joined the fight against Western forces in places such as Iraq based purely on the torture of detainees in places such as a Guantanamo Bay.
Like others have said, torture doesn't get you reliable information. It get's you what your detainee thinks you want to hear. What if he doesn't know anything ?
To torture anyone is awful, but to torture someone when they don't even have information to give you is barbaric.
The west should be better than that.
Waterboarding is torture. It is taking someone to the point of drowning and pulling them back. Could you also suffocate someone to the point where they black out ? As long as you let them breathe again ?
I can't believe people condone torture, it seems to be acceptable as long as the people being tortured are the 'ragheads' in the middle east.
Like others have said, torture doesn't get you reliable information. It get's you what your detainee thinks you want to hear. What if he doesn't know anything ?
To torture anyone is awful, but to torture someone when they don't even have information to give you is barbaric.
The west should be better than that.
Waterboarding is torture. It is taking someone to the point of drowning and pulling them back. Could you also suffocate someone to the point where they black out ? As long as you let them breathe again ?
I can't believe people condone torture, it seems to be acceptable as long as the people being tortured are the 'ragheads' in the middle east.
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