Discussion
Nobby Diesel said:
Tonight, it has been declared that the British Forces have lost 8 people in the last 24 hours.
A devastating toll.
With Piston Heads long standing relationship with Help For Heroes, it might be a good time to dig deep and support our boys and girls.
Thank you.
Devastating?A devastating toll.
With Piston Heads long standing relationship with Help For Heroes, it might be a good time to dig deep and support our boys and girls.
Thank you.
We're involved in a war, yet deaths are still so rare as to be headline news.
Yes, it's sad that people are losing their lives out there - but the total death toll from both Iraq and Afghanistan has been remarkably low under the circumstances.
Didn't we lose more people in the very short Falklands conflict than we have in several years in Afghanistan?
Alfa_75_Steve said:
Nobby Diesel said:
Tonight, it has been declared that the British Forces have lost 8 people in the last 24 hours.
A devastating toll.
With Piston Heads long standing relationship with Help For Heroes, it might be a good time to dig deep and support our boys and girls.
Thank you.
Devastating?A devastating toll.
With Piston Heads long standing relationship with Help For Heroes, it might be a good time to dig deep and support our boys and girls.
Thank you.
We're involved in a war, yet deaths are still so rare as to be headline news.
Yes, it's sad that people are losing their lives out there - but the total death toll from both Iraq and Afghanistan has been remarkably low under the circumstances.
Didn't we lose more people in the very short Falklands conflict than we have in several years in Afghanistan?
They are all devastating, IMHO.
Alfa_75_Steve said:
Nobby Diesel said:
Tonight, it has been declared that the British Forces have lost 8 people in the last 24 hours.
A devastating toll.
With Piston Heads long standing relationship with Help For Heroes, it might be a good time to dig deep and support our boys and girls.
Thank you.
Devastating?A devastating toll.
With Piston Heads long standing relationship with Help For Heroes, it might be a good time to dig deep and support our boys and girls.
Thank you.
We're involved in a war, yet deaths are still so rare as to be headline news.
Yes, it's sad that people are losing their lives out there - but the total death toll from both Iraq and Afghanistan has been remarkably low under the circumstances.
Didn't we lose more people in the very short Falklands conflict than we have in several years in Afghanistan?
I don't think it's insensitive - I think it's putting things into perspective.
Deaths in current conflicts are so rare that they make the top story on the news when they happen.
It may seem harsh, but that's remarkable in that there have been so few deaths in so many years.
I think that we forget sometimes that war can and does mean people will lose their lives - in fact, it often seems that people are surprised that we do lose lives in conflicts, it has become such a small risk.
Deaths in current conflicts are so rare that they make the top story on the news when they happen.
It may seem harsh, but that's remarkable in that there have been so few deaths in so many years.
I think that we forget sometimes that war can and does mean people will lose their lives - in fact, it often seems that people are surprised that we do lose lives in conflicts, it has become such a small risk.
Alfa_75_Steve said:
I don't think it's insensitive - I think it's putting things into perspective.
Deaths in current conflicts are so rare that they make the top story on the news when they happen.
It may seem harsh, but that's remarkable in that there have been so few deaths in so many years.
I think that we forget sometimes that war can and does mean people will lose their lives - in fact, it often seems that people are surprised that we do lose lives in conflicts, it has become such a small risk.
I was actually reffering to your blase manner toward death and conflict. I agree with your other points though, I am just a bit cross at the moment with this "war".Deaths in current conflicts are so rare that they make the top story on the news when they happen.
It may seem harsh, but that's remarkable in that there have been so few deaths in so many years.
I think that we forget sometimes that war can and does mean people will lose their lives - in fact, it often seems that people are surprised that we do lose lives in conflicts, it has become such a small risk.
jayfish said:
just as involved, only news we here is brit centric, others are sacrificing too, we just don't hear about it.
Canadian troops are only in Kandahar, American marines are backing the Brit up.French and Germans refuse to go into the major action and instead are only doing peacekeeping in rest of the country....
rypt said:
jayfish said:
just as involved, only news we here is brit centric, others are sacrificing too, we just don't hear about it.
Canadian troops are only in Kandahar, American marines are backing the Brit up.French and Germans refuse to go into the major action and instead are only doing peacekeeping in rest of the country....
rypt said:
Afghanistan is a NATO action - why are only the Brits involved in any serious fighting?
What are Canada, USA, Italy, Germany, Spain and the rest doing exactly?
America has lost over 700 troops in Afghanistan, the rest of the coalition combined has lost just over half that amount. Regardless, it is still a tragedy, may they rest in peace.What are Canada, USA, Italy, Germany, Spain and the rest doing exactly?
Edited by rypt on Saturday 11th July 02:14
rypt said:
jayfish said:
just as involved, only news we here is brit centric, others are sacrificing too, we just don't hear about it.
Canadian troops are only in Kandahar, American marines are backing the Brit up.French and Germans refuse to go into the major action and instead are only doing peacekeeping in rest of the country....
A possible alternative view might be that the political leaders of
those countries recognised the problems in fighting an open-ended
foreign war and made sure that their troops went to the relatively
quiet areas of Afghanistan.
The Brits, and quite possibly the Americans, were more gung-ho about
it and so got allocated the more violent areas in the South.
For historical background, the Russians had about 100,000 troops in
Afghanistan for about ten years and got approximately nowhere.
The Brits have about 8,000 and have been there 3-4 years.
So I don't think it is feasible to suggest the Brits are going
to make much difference.
Also, I don't understand the end-point of this conflict. What is
the X that when we reach it, we can say "job done" and go home ?
I guess it will come down to some political fudging that the
Afghans, who have been fighting each other for centuries, have
suddenly adopted a lot of fancy Western ideas about democracy
and so the Brits can go home.
Battenburg Bob said:
Germans have done sweet FA.
Well memories are long. And I dont think the German population has much appetite for using troops outside their borders, because of their history.When well we pull out? Well I'd guess putting it simply when people stop shooting at us. Petraeus had the right idea in Iraq. You've got to take the ground and then hold it, and become the populations "go to guys". That way the population will push out the "undesireables".
Unfortunately the push to take and hold ground needs lots of people and lots of action which means our guys are going to get in harms way. Partucularly if there are too few of them to defend their patch.
When they don't have to defend their patch and the population it contains are policing and operating as an independant operation and our guys are bored. That'd be success.
I don't think our leaders will provide enough troops, or equipment, or the correct tactics, or stay for long enough. But apart from that....
Let's be honest, we are in Iraq to secure our share of future oil supplies. Overthrowing a dictator was just a bonus.
Afghanistan is about securing a country so that oil companies will invest in a pipeline across the country. We are only there to profit financially.
Both wars are a disgrace and do us no favours as a country in the eyes of the rest of the world. Anyone in the armed forces with any sense would get out at the earliest opportunity. These aren't wars to be proud of, it is just blatent theft. We should be ashamed as a country that we haven't left this legacy in the past.
Afghanistan is about securing a country so that oil companies will invest in a pipeline across the country. We are only there to profit financially.
Both wars are a disgrace and do us no favours as a country in the eyes of the rest of the world. Anyone in the armed forces with any sense would get out at the earliest opportunity. These aren't wars to be proud of, it is just blatent theft. We should be ashamed as a country that we haven't left this legacy in the past.
Edited by Jack Butcher on Saturday 11th July 10:50
Sad to see any loss.
Until soldiers start vocalising their own feelings about this war en masse and the groundswell of public opinion turns against the war then I can see little changing. This war cannot be won - they are fighting a peoples who have lived with generations of conflict and infighting. It comes as easily to them as it does a chav scoffing a mcshyte meal.
But how can the govt back down without losing 'face'? At stake and too much to lose on the international front and especially with the fundamentalists in Afghanistan and pakistan. A draw or an 'honourable' withdrawl will be seen as a victory from the other side. So the war will continue, the dead, the leggless and armless and eyeless will keep coming home.
... A pair of brown eyes waiting for me.. Somehow says it all
Well done labour, good call there. Nice one - cutting the head off the hydra.
Until soldiers start vocalising their own feelings about this war en masse and the groundswell of public opinion turns against the war then I can see little changing. This war cannot be won - they are fighting a peoples who have lived with generations of conflict and infighting. It comes as easily to them as it does a chav scoffing a mcshyte meal.
But how can the govt back down without losing 'face'? At stake and too much to lose on the international front and especially with the fundamentalists in Afghanistan and pakistan. A draw or an 'honourable' withdrawl will be seen as a victory from the other side. So the war will continue, the dead, the leggless and armless and eyeless will keep coming home.
... A pair of brown eyes waiting for me.. Somehow says it all
Well done labour, good call there. Nice one - cutting the head off the hydra.
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