Burning witches in Kenya

[TheFlyingBanana]

Good grief!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8119201.st...

What on earth can be done about this kind of thing?

[ALawson]

Let them and the spread of AIDs get on with it. Africa will be cleared soon enough.

[FourWheelDrift]

No wonder Margaret Beckett turned down the job at the Foreign Office.

[LoveMachine]

It's like the Abbos. There is nothing wrong with the people individually, or their capacity to be trained, achieve and that way they are most certainly equals. (just defusing the rascist card).

However, they live in savage cultures and are totally uncivilised.

It's a different world and we need to stop comparing it with our own cushy standards.

[teapea]

yep, their society isn't evolved as ours,
it's pretty shocking though, that's what you get in a religious country where people are poorly educated though

[srebbe64]

I go to a fair few third world countries and, as others have said, you can't really use a western benchmark when making judgments. If the west intervened each time it saw something appalling (and there are many appalling things) where will it end. Equally, in some cases (genocide as an example) then the west should intervene.

[cazzer]

But how do you know they wern't actually witches?
How do you know you're right and they're wrong Eh?

[Airbag]

Salem isn't that long ago, but what a horror. Can't think of a worse way to go than being burned alive by an angry mob.

[srebbe64]

cazzer said:

But how do you know they wern't actually witches?
How do you know you're right and they're wrong Eh?

Whether they were or not is irrelevant - you shouldn't treat other humans in such a way. That said, who are we to intervene. What if the Africans tried to intervene with western values (abortion, as an example) they'd soon be told where to go by us. Such is the conundrum.

[TheFlyingBanana]

cazzer said:

But how do you know they wern't actually witches?
How do you know you're right and they're wrong Eh?

Don't be silly.

[Jasandjules]

Educate?

[Munter]

Jasandjules said:

Educate?

Not possible due to politics/society.

I'd go for don't get involved and wait for their countries to:
A)Get their act together and do it (educate/civilise) themselves
B)Die off

[FourWheelDrift]

Jasandjules said:

Educate?

Quite right, first you have to see if the witch floats in water, then if she does you burn her.

A witch turned me into a newt once.............but I got better.

[fathomfive]

FourWheelDrift said:

Jasandjules said:

Educate?

Quite right, first you have to see if the witch floats in water, then if she does you burn her.

A witch turned me into a newt once.............but I got better.

Do you weigh the same as a duck?

[cazzer]

TheFlyingBanana said:

cazzer said:

But how do you know they wern't actually witches?
How do you know you're right and they're wrong Eh?

Don't be silly.

Well of course I'm being silly.

[Talksteer]

srebbe64 said:

I go to a fair few third world countries and, as others have said, you can't really use a western benchmark when making judgments. If the west intervened each time it saw something appalling (and there are many appalling things) where will it end. Equally, in some cases (genocide as an example) then the west should intervene.

It is a relatively easy intervene though, the western governments can apply pressure to the Kenyan government. Kenya does have a sort of democratically elected government. Is not like sending peacekeepers into Mogadishu.

If the central government wanted to it could probably stamp out practices like this. Even if they can't pin the crime on anyone specifically because it was done by a mob/nobody will talk. If the police rolled into town the next day and robustly arrested a portion of those responsible maybe accidentally breaking some legs and cracking some heads I suspect these sort of practises would die out fairly quickly.

[Jasandjules]

FourWheelDrift said:

Jasandjules said:

Educate?

Quite right, first you have to see if the witch floats in water, then if she does you burn her.

Bit of a lack of water in Africa to waste on checking for floating witches. There must be some other method......

[Sam_68]

Jasandjules said:

Bit of a lack of water in Africa to waste on checking for floating witches. There must be some other method......

There is. You use a witch pricker. Very portable and doesn't rely on the presence of water at all. Ducking's just primitive... you've really got to take advantage of modern technology, when it's available.

Seriously though, isn't it about time we stopped trying to judge everbody else's culture and government by our own standards and stop interfering? If they want to live in a dictatorship, or believe in Allah, or burn witches, what's it to do with us? Let them live by their own rules, just so long as they understand that if they come over here, they have to live by ours.

Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 27th June 11:28

[FourWheelDrift]

Jasandjules said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Jasandjules said:

Educate?

Quite right, first you have to see if the witch floats in water, then if she does you burn her.

Bit of a lack of water in Africa to waste on checking for floating witches. There must be some other method......

If you don't have any water you have to think laterally..

TRIBAL CHIEF: Quiet, quiet. Quiet! There are ways of telling whether
she is a witch.
CROWD: Are there? What are they?
TRIBAL CHIEF: Tell me, what do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2: Burn!
CROWD: Burn, burn them up!
TRIBAL CHIEF: And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1: More witches!
VILLAGER #2: Wood!
TRIBAL CHIEF: So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of wood...?
TRIBAL CHIEF: Good!
CROWD: Oh yeah, yeah...
TRIBAL CHIEF: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
TRIBAL CHIEF: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah.
TRIBAL CHIEF: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No, no.
VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond!
TRIBAL CHIEF: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1: Cider!
VILLAGER #2: Great gravy!
VILLAGER #1: Cherries!
VILLAGER #2: Mud!
VILLAGER #3: Churches -- churches!
VILLAGER #2: Lead -- lead!
VILLAGER#4: A duck.
CROWD: Oooh.
TRIBAL CHIEF: Exactly! So, logically...,
VILLAGER #1: If... she.. weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood.
TRIBAL CHIEF: And therefore--?
VILLAGER #1: A witch!
CROWD: A witch!
TRIBAL CHIEF: We shall use my larger scales!
[yelling]
TRIBAL CHIEF: Right, remove the supports!
[whop]
[creak]
CROWD: A witch! A witch!
WITCH: It's a fair cop.

[Jasandjules]

I think you've put waaaaaayyy too much thought into this!!!!

Sam - I am in part in agreement, however, do we also not owe it to other humans to attempt to prevent unnecessary suffering where possible? Where do you draw the line? After all, Hitler was only killing Jews and Gypsies in his own country (ok, at the start and I appreciate he went off to visit Poland etc but you get my point)...

We are not suggesting adjusting Governance (though I must confess in respect of say Zimbabwe I would support such action) but simply preventing innocent people being burnt alive (and yes, I know this country used to do that as well, but in theory we have moved on).