Is striking acceptable in this day and age?
Poll: Is striking acceptable in this day and age?
Total Members Polled: 201
Discussion
Off the back of the Tube strikes thread. Personally if you don't turn up for work in my book you should be sacked or at least severely disciplined. If you don't like the job / rate leave. In particular LU have to have some of the best rates and amazing benefits of any job accessible to the average person anyway.
Edited by The_Burg on Tuesday 9th June 10:25
The trouble is not all industries allow you to easily transfer to another employer at the same or even similar level you previously held. It's easy to say "leave if you don't like it" but in some industries that's not really possible without taking a massive drop in salary and conditions.
The_Burg said:
el stovey said:
The trouble is not all industries allow you to easily transfer to another employer at the same or even similar level you previously held.
So if nobody else is paying the rate you want then surely that says something?Look at a heavily unionised seniority based industry like the airlines. Pilots are mainly in unions to protect their terms and conditions as moving to another employer means starting at the bottom with the same terms as someone at the beginning of their career. Two pilots in different airlines may have the same conditions for a 20 years of service position but you can't leave one company and join the other at the same level if your employer starts to try and reduce your conditions below the going rate.
el stovey said:
The_Burg said:
el stovey said:
The trouble is not all industries allow you to easily transfer to another employer at the same or even similar level you previously held.
So if nobody else is paying the rate you want then surely that says something?Look at a heavily unionised seniority based industry like the airlines. Pilots are mainly in unions to protect their terms and conditions as moving to another employer means starting at the bottom with the same terms as someone at the beginning of their career. Two pilots in different airlines may have the same conditions for a 20 years of service position but you can't leave one company and join the other at the same level if your employer starts to try and reduce your conditions below the going rate.
youngsyr said:
el stovey said:
The_Burg said:
el stovey said:
The trouble is not all industries allow you to easily transfer to another employer at the same or even similar level you previously held.
So if nobody else is paying the rate you want then surely that says something?Look at a heavily unionised seniority based industry like the airlines. Pilots are mainly in unions to protect their terms and conditions as moving to another employer means starting at the bottom with the same terms as someone at the beginning of their career. Two pilots in different airlines may have the same conditions for a 20 years of service position but you can't leave one company and join the other at the same level if your employer starts to try and reduce your conditions below the going rate.
Anyone want to post some Marxist theory??
Fittster said:
youngsyr said:
el stovey said:
The_Burg said:
el stovey said:
The trouble is not all industries allow you to easily transfer to another employer at the same or even similar level you previously held.
So if nobody else is paying the rate you want then surely that says something?Look at a heavily unionised seniority based industry like the airlines. Pilots are mainly in unions to protect their terms and conditions as moving to another employer means starting at the bottom with the same terms as someone at the beginning of their career. Two pilots in different airlines may have the same conditions for a 20 years of service position but you can't leave one company and join the other at the same level if your employer starts to try and reduce your conditions below the going rate.
Anyone want to post some Marxist theory??
Time the tube along with all public transport was brought into the 20th century!, (and yes i did say 20th, 21st would kill them all off).
Fittster said:
youngsyr said:
el stovey said:
The_Burg said:
el stovey said:
The trouble is not all industries allow you to easily transfer to another employer at the same or even similar level you previously held.
So if nobody else is paying the rate you want then surely that says something?Look at a heavily unionised seniority based industry like the airlines. Pilots are mainly in unions to protect their terms and conditions as moving to another employer means starting at the bottom with the same terms as someone at the beginning of their career. Two pilots in different airlines may have the same conditions for a 20 years of service position but you can't leave one company and join the other at the same level if your employer starts to try and reduce your conditions below the going rate.
Anyone want to post some Marxist theory??
It's not in the workers' interests to drive up wages overall, because one man's wages is another man's living expenses. The most straight-forward example is that if the bakers get together and force up their earnings through unions, then the cost of bread for everyone is increased. So, all you're doing in that situation is redistributing wealth from everyone to the bakers and that redistribution is not in line with how much they are contributing to the economy. The result is therefore an "unfair" system.
thinfourth2 said:
I always thought the main point of any union was to utterly destroy any business its members work for
The main purpose of a Union (or Institute or Association etc) is protect the individual from the excesses of an unreasonable employer and the state. When they get into pay to "maintain differentials" you know they've lost the plot.
This is from an email I received this morning
a mate said:
I’m going to have a whinge about something now…tube workers. And I know that I don’t even use the tube much anymore, I just feel the need to vent.
I cannot describe how much these tossers wind me up, seriously, they strike about once a month & after reading about what they’re striking about today I hate them even more. They are bloody legally paid terrorists. They use the fact that they have such an effect on millions of peoples lives (not to mention the fact it’ll cost the country £100m) as a bargaining tool for their own personal gain.
If you don’t like your job, sod off & go somewhere else, we’d all like more money but we don’t hold our bosses/companies to ransom by threatening to p
s off all our customers do we? Never before have I known an industry with such a miserable rate of customer satisfaction & they continue to get our custom because we have no choice & these bds use the people who pay their wages as bargain chips! I’d love the top men to fire every person striking & shut the tube down altogether…just to prove a point.
I think he has a point.I cannot describe how much these tossers wind me up, seriously, they strike about once a month & after reading about what they’re striking about today I hate them even more. They are bloody legally paid terrorists. They use the fact that they have such an effect on millions of peoples lives (not to mention the fact it’ll cost the country £100m) as a bargaining tool for their own personal gain.
If you don’t like your job, sod off & go somewhere else, we’d all like more money but we don’t hold our bosses/companies to ransom by threatening to p
s off all our customers do we? Never before have I known an industry with such a miserable rate of customer satisfaction & they continue to get our custom because we have no choice & these bds use the people who pay their wages as bargain chips! I’d love the top men to fire every person striking & shut the tube down altogether…just to prove a point. Edited by Pints on Tuesday 9th June 13:36
The_Burg said:
If the business makes no money, there is no business, hardly a difficult concept surely.
public transport, amongst other things, needs to be subsidised reallythe people who benefit from it don't pay for it
London would be utterly screwed without a cheap way for its worker drones to get in to work
It does amaze me how on some threads posters accuse Labour of attempting to run a totalitarian state, and then on another thread, such as this one, seem to have no problem with removing peoples rights.
Of course workers have the right to strike - it is usually the only real power they have in trying to negotiate with an employer that might be abusing its position.
Unless you think that workers don't really have or deserve any rights or protection? And that all the rights should be with the employer?
If so, god help us. PH is no longer just right wing, it is the opposite of the loony left - the rabid right.
I really don't have much faith in big business to do the right thing. Given how the banks have behaved I feel justified in that opinion.
Of course workers have the right to strike - it is usually the only real power they have in trying to negotiate with an employer that might be abusing its position.
Unless you think that workers don't really have or deserve any rights or protection? And that all the rights should be with the employer?
If so, god help us. PH is no longer just right wing, it is the opposite of the loony left - the rabid right.
I really don't have much faith in big business to do the right thing. Given how the banks have behaved I feel justified in that opinion.
youngsyr said:
Fittster said:
youngsyr said:
el stovey said:
The_Burg said:
el stovey said:
The trouble is not all industries allow you to easily transfer to another employer at the same or even similar level you previously held.
So if nobody else is paying the rate you want then surely that says something?Look at a heavily unionised seniority based industry like the airlines. Pilots are mainly in unions to protect their terms and conditions as moving to another employer means starting at the bottom with the same terms as someone at the beginning of their career. Two pilots in different airlines may have the same conditions for a 20 years of service position but you can't leave one company and join the other at the same level if your employer starts to try and reduce your conditions below the going rate.
Anyone want to post some Marxist theory??
It's not in the workers' interests to drive up wages overall, because one man's wages is another man's living expenses. The most straight-forward example is that if the bakers get together and force up their earnings through unions, then the cost of bread for everyone is increased. So, all you're doing in that situation is redistributing wealth from everyone to the bakers and that redistribution is not in line with how much they are contributing to the economy. The result is therefore an "unfair" system.
"Since a worker does not own any means of production they must "voluntarily" enter into an exploitive work relationship with a capitalist in order to receive the necessities of life. Their entry into exploitation is voluntary in the sense that they can choose which capitalist to work for; but they must choose to work for some capitalist or starve. They cannot escape exploitation. The voluntarism of exploitation in capitalism is illusory."
source
“The commercial crises ... by their periodical return, put the existence of the entire bourgeois society on its trial, each time more threateningly. In these crises, a great part not only of the existing products, but also of the previously created productive forces, are periodically destroyed. In these crises, there breaks out an epidemic that, in all earlier epochs, would have seemed an absurdity — the epidemic of over-production.”
Sounds like boom and bust to me, which can lead to a race to the bottom, wage deflation, 0% interest rates, deflation taking hold. Not seeing much market equilibrium at the moment.
Striking is one of the few option available to the workers in their eternal struggle with the bourgeois.
Do we not have any Marxists on PH who can argue the case?
youngsyr said:
el stovey said:
The_Burg said:
el stovey said:
The trouble is not all industries allow you to easily transfer to another employer at the same or even similar level you previously held.
So if nobody else is paying the rate you want then surely that says something?Look at a heavily unionised seniority based industry like the airlines. Pilots are mainly in unions to protect their terms and conditions as moving to another employer means starting at the bottom with the same terms as someone at the beginning of their career. Two pilots in different airlines may have the same conditions for a 20 years of service position but you can't leave one company and join the other at the same level if your employer starts to try and reduce your conditions below the going rate.
If his employer tries to pay beneath the market level for his experience then he can't go elsewhere and achieve the same salary even though pilots having served the same time in those new companies still achieve his old salary.
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