Civil Servants pay and expenses

[sidewayz]

Anyone got any idea how much pay middle to high ranking civil servants get and what sort of expenses they claim? Reason for asking is that while the Telegraph is doing a grand job exposing the M.P.'s scandels it would be interesting to learn just how much of our tax goes to support the Whitehall elite.

All I could find was the following from the Times in February 13, 2004

Pay fury over the £300,000 civil servant
Whitehall salary gap widens as lowest-paid get less than inflation


By Jill Sherman and Rosemary Bennett
A BITTER row over Whitehall pay erupted last night after the most senior officials were awarded pay rises of up to £50,000 while the lowly were told that they would have to manage on less than inflation.

Top civil servants could see their pay soar to £300,000 next year. But the poorest- performing 10 per cent were offered rises of between nothing and 2 per cent.

At the same time, members of the frontline Armed Forces serving in Iraq were awarded rises of 3.7 per cent. For the most junior privates, salaries will rise to just £13,461 in April. The most senior military officer’s salary will rise to £189,000.

[Northern Munkee]

As one of the lowly civil servants who is in the middle of a 3 year pay deal, that will see my salary rise by just 1% (in total) over those 3 years, I'd just like to say I'm disgusted at this as the rest of you, but please maintain the distinction of Top/Whitehall Civil Servants as you rant, as the civil servants you will meet in say HMRC or at the Jobcentre are not well paid, are doing more with less, as staff are not replaced as they go, and even if there is some job security (but no jobs for life anymore) and yes a final salary pension, but even this is closed to most lowly new entrants. Not special pleading, just info. And yes, I don't like, and i'm attempting to get on my bike...

Edited by Northern Munkee on Monday 1st June 21:16

[sidewayz]

Agreed, it's Whitehall that needs looking at not the troops.But it really needs looking at!

[jimmyb]

Northern Munkee said:

As one of the lowly civil servants who is in the middle of a 3 year pay deal, that will see my salary rise by just 1% (in total) over those 3 years, I'd just like to say I'm disgusted at this as the rest of you, but please maintain the distinction of Top/Whitehall Civil Servants as you rant, as the civil servants you will meet in say HMRC or at the Jobcentre are not well paid, are doing more with less, as staff are not replaced as they go, and even if there is some job security (but no jobs for life anymore) and yes a final salary pension, but even this is closed to most lowly new entrants. Not special pleading, just info. And yes, I don't like, and i'm attempting to get on my bike...

Edited by Northern Munkee on Monday 1st June 21:16

I have to deal with general civils and the way the government treats them is shamefull and disgusting to put it lightly. Mugabe is more decent and honest.

Edited by jimmyb on Monday 1st June 22:26

[unrepentant]

sidewayz said:

Top civil servants could see their pay soar to £300,000 next year. But the poorest- performing 10 per cent were offered rises of between nothing and 2 per cent.

That's peanuts though. if the perm sec at say the Dept Of Health or Defence or the Home Office is only on £300k that's an insult. Adam Crozier is paid way over £1 million and he's effectively a civil servant.

[Randy Winkman]

There was an expose (how do I do the accent?) on high ranking civil servants a few months ago. It was very boring frankly. Just a bit of stuff about people getting a few posh dinners and going to some sports events.


For 99.9% of civil servants, their salaries are pretty easy to work out (very few civil servants get more than about £70k) and expenses are extremely tightly controlled.

Whether they give good VFM is another matter entirely.

[sidewayz]

unrepentant said:

sidewayz said:

Top civil servants could see their pay soar to £300,000 next year. But the poorest- performing 10 per cent were offered rises of between nothing and 2 per cent.

That's peanuts though. if the perm sec at say the Dept Of Health or Defence or the Home Office is only on £300k that's an insult. Adam Crozier is paid way over £1 million and he's effectively a civil servant.

I would just like to know. I once had the misfortune of working with a quango run by a particularly dim character who was a junior to mid level Whitehall civil servant and she was on £220,000 excluding expenses at the time. I was astonished at the amount of money paid to someone who so throughly misunderstood the topic her company was directed to work on.

[Randy Winkman]

sidewayz said:

unrepentant said:

sidewayz said:

Top civil servants could see their pay soar to £300,000 next year. But the poorest- performing 10 per cent were offered rises of between nothing and 2 per cent.

That's peanuts though. if the perm sec at say the Dept Of Health or Defence or the Home Office is only on £300k that's an insult. Adam Crozier is paid way over £1 million and he's effectively a civil servant.

I would just like to know. I once had the misfortune of working with a quango run by a particularly dim character who was a junior to mid level Whitehall civil servant and she was on £220,000 excluding expenses at the time. I was astonished at the amount of money paid to someone who so throughly misunderstood the topic her company was directed to work on.

I cant possibly imagine what job she was doing. The head of a whole Department (e.g. Dept for Business, or M.O.D.) wouldn't get paid that amount.

[unrepentant]

sidewayz said:

unrepentant said:

sidewayz said:

Top civil servants could see their pay soar to £300,000 next year. But the poorest- performing 10 per cent were offered rises of between nothing and 2 per cent.

That's peanuts though. if the perm sec at say the Dept Of Health or Defence or the Home Office is only on £300k that's an insult. Adam Crozier is paid way over £1 million and he's effectively a civil servant.

I would just like to know. I once had the misfortune of working with a quango run by a particularly dim character who was a junior to mid level Whitehall civil servant and she was on £220,000 excluding expenses at the time. I was astonished at the amount of money paid to someone who so throughly misunderstood the topic her company was directed to work on.

Sorry mate but that's just bks. Junior to mid level Whitehall civil servants do not earn £220k a year. You have to be very senior to be into 6 figures. If she told you she was on £220k she was lying. Having said that you seem to be confused anyway - you refer to "her company". Civil servants don't have companies, they work for the government.

[Dover Nige]

Northern Munkee said:

As one of the lowly civil servants who is in the middle of a 3 year pay deal, that will see my salary rise by just 1% (in total) over those 3 years, I'd just like to say I'm disgusted at this as the rest of you, but please maintain the distinction of Top/Whitehall Civil Servants as you rant, as the civil servants you will meet in say HMRC or at the Jobcentre are not well paid, are doing more with less, as staff are not replaced as they go, and even if there is some job security (but no jobs for life anymore) and yes a final salary pension, but even this is closed to most lowly new entrants. Not special pleading, just info.

[johnfm]

Randy Winkman said:

There was an expose (how do I do the accent?) on high ranking civil servants a few months ago. It was very boring frankly. Just a bit of stuff about people getting a few posh dinners and going to some sports events.


For 99.9% of civil servants, their salaries are pretty easy to work out (very few civil servants get more than about £70k) and expenses are extremely tightly controlled.

Whether they give good VFM is another matter entirely.

Have a quick scan here:

5 pages of civil service jobs paying over £80k

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/jobs/Job-search-res...

[angryS3owner]

johnfm said:

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/jobs/Job-search-res...

some of those are class, no wonder our money doesn't go far with you know, silly things like roads and police!

I'm going to apply for either the eco babble one or to be a director of strategy I think

[Northern Munkee]

johnfm said:

Randy Winkman said:

There was an expose (how do I do the accent?) on high ranking civil servants a few months ago. It was very boring frankly. Just a bit of stuff about people getting a few posh dinners and going to some sports events.


For 99.9% of civil servants, their salaries are pretty easy to work out (very few civil servants get more than about £70k) and expenses are extremely tightly controlled.

Whether they give good VFM is another matter entirely.

Have a quick scan here:

5 pages of civil service jobs paying over £80k

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/jobs/Job-search-res...

Too quick a scan, I trolled through the first 6 or 7 pages and found 6 or 7 posts over £50K, remember for better or worse, the civil service is probably the biggest employer in the current after the NHS, over 100,000+, unless specialists such professionals (lawyers, architects) paying market rate etc, the posts over £50K, will be senior management posts with staffs of over 200+ and probably only three steps from reporting to directly to a minister, and only a step or two from being called in front of a select committee.

I'd suggest 90-95% of all posts in the civil service are on or less than UK average earnings.

Edited by Northern Munkee on Tuesday 2nd June 13:26

[johnfm]

So, there aren't many civil service jobs over £70k???

I am not saying there is no requirement for senior management in the civil service on decent salaries, but for the earlier poster to say that very few are on more than £70k is not borne out by the civil service website.

[Deva Link]

johnfm said:

So, there aren't many civil service jobs over £70k???

About 1% of them, apparently.

Some interesting (if you're interested in this area) information here:
http://www.civilservant.org.uk/pay.shtml

[N24]

It's riskier than being a banker...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6286252.stm

[unrepentant]

johnfm said:

So, there aren't many civil service jobs over £70k???

I am not saying there is no requirement for senior management in the civil service on decent salaries, but for the earlier poster to say that very few are on more than £70k is not borne out by the civil service website.

There were hardly any (none?) on the list you had posted. Even if the first five pages had been chock a block with them so what? The civil service employs hundreds of thousands of people amongst which there will be senior managers who one would expect to have decent six figure salaries. The NHS is the 3rd biggest employer in the world and you would expect the people that oversee it at the DoH to be of high quality, ditto the people running all the major departments of government.

[angryS3owner]

unrepentant said:

There were hardly any (none?) on the list you had posted. Even if the first five pages had been chock a block with them so what? The civil service employs hundreds of thousands of people amongst which there will be senior managers who one would expect to have decent six figure salaries. The NHS is the 3rd biggest employer in the world and you would expect the people that oversee it at the DoH to be of high quality, ditto the people running all the major departments of government.

If you do a search there are at least 5 pages of jobs that are over 60k / 80k, I couldn't be bothered seeing how many there actually were.

I have no objection to good people being paid good money to get things done but even the job descriptions make most of them sound like 'non jobs' and just more middle management ste.

If the NHS really is the third biggest employer then that scares me even more as I wonder how many of those people are doing pointless st and how many are actually doctors / nurses / cleaners.

[Mikeyboy]

Are we perhaps getting a bit confused between consultants attached to the civil service of which there are arguably too many and too highly paid with too little practical(i.e.experiential)knowledge and the person who actually works for the civil service?

Edited by Mikeyboy on Tuesday 2nd June 14:39

[johnfm]

unrepentant said:

johnfm said:

So, there aren't many civil service jobs over £70k???

I am not saying there is no requirement for senior management in the civil service on decent salaries, but for the earlier poster to say that very few are on more than £70k is not borne out by the civil service website.

There were hardly any (none?) on the list you had posted. Even if the first five pages had been chock a block with them so what? The civil service employs hundreds of thousands of people amongst which there will be senior managers who one would expect to have decent six figure salaries. The NHS is the 3rd biggest employer in the world and you would expect the people that oversee it at the DoH to be of high quality, ditto the people running all the major departments of government.

Once again, for the hard of reading, I don't suggest there shouldn't be any. An earlier poster had stated there are hardly any. I disagree, and a job search on the civil service site will show there is not a shortage of job vacancies above £80k. If there are pages of advertised vacancies at that level, I suspect there are many mnay jobs already in place at or above those levels.

Like any organisation, the pay sructure is a pyramid - layers of low paid wage slaves, managed by a smaller number of highly (or over)paid managers.

Would you like a chip to balance the one already on your shoulder?