Israel has me seething.....

[beanbag]

Whenever I read an article regarding the Palestinian and Israeli conflict, I detest the state of Israel more and more.

Their leaders are hypocrites, liars, murderers and have nothing more than double standards committing nothing more than what I believe is genocide in an internationally "accepted" way.

They are effectively slowly wiping the Palestinian people from the face of this planet and nobody seems to do anything about it.

I found this map through a BBC article and the fact that there are "settler roads", and "buffer zones", not to mention that Israel is the only state in the world actively expanding it's borders.

For goodness sake, what rights do these people have to place barriers, walls, and stop their freedom to travel (even to other countries). They're even restricting their fishing grounds and preventing them from getting fresh water, food, supplies, electricity and medicine.

http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/WestBank_December...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7919832.stm

It's no better than the Nazi's rounding up the Jews in ghetto's and leaving them to starve. They seem to be returning the "favour" to the Palestinian people and the only fate the Israeli's receive is a few moderately worded statements towards them. It's pathetic.

Pure double standards, but what really makes my blood boil is the fact that almost every Israeli and non-Israeli Jew I've spoken to about this topic uses the WW2 holocaust as a justification for their cause!!! It's unbelievable!!! Their propaganda machine is not only powerful, but they actively target the young minds of not only Israeli children, but every Jewish child from all over the world.

The worst thing is nothing can be done. No protest, government demand, or foreign organisation has the will or power to stop this. I genuinely believe the Israeli government has one objective in mind and that's to wipe out the Palestinian people and take over their land.

Seriously....what can be done? Nothing!

[ewenm]

The US government could stop it. However, it has been going on for so long now that neither side can be considered innocent. Perhaps the original responsibility lies with whoever decided that creating a new Jewish state in an already disputed area was a good idea.

It is all very sad.

[Fittster]

ewenm said:

Perhaps the original responsibility lies with whoever decided that creating a new Jewish state in an already disputed area was a good idea.

Wasn't that us? And setting up lots of dodgy states in the middle east, plus carving up Africa,
partitioning India, etc.

The whole mess is all our fault!

[beanbag]

Fittster said:

ewenm said:

Perhaps the original responsibility lies with whoever decided that creating a new Jewish state in an already disputed area was a good idea.

Wasn't that us? And setting up lots of dodgy states in the middle east, plus carving up Africa,
partitioning India, etc.

The whole mess is all our fault!

Yup, I agree. But something could have been done to keep them under control.

I feel physically sick with all this going on.

I totally understand why Hamas exists (not that I condone their violence), but I understand. I'm sure if I were a Palestinian, I would be volunteering at the first moment I got. What other chance do these people have?

[pano amo]

I find the whole Israel / Palestine issue quite boring from a political standpoint. Its never-ending. It would seem right and fair to give the people of Palestine their own democratic state but without knowing the complicated detail, I suppose this just isnt going to happen anytime soon. Israel is a major financial player with money in the right places around the world so things aint going to change unless they so and only on their terms. Still, you'd think they'd be all sick of the situation by now and work something out.

Edited by pano amo on Thursday 28th May 15:58

[beanbag]

pano amo said:

I find the whole Israel / Palestine issue quite boring from a political standpoint. Its never-ending. It would seem right and fair to give the people of Palestine their own democratic state but without knowing the complicated detail, I suppose this just isnt going to happen anytime soon. Israel is a major financial player with money in the right places around the world so things aint going to change unless they so and only on their terms. Still, you'd think they'd be all sick of the situation by now and work something out.

Edited by pano amo on Thursday 28th May 15:58

Boring is I suppose one way to put it. However from my point of view, the mass genocide of an entire country is nothing but that, and the only way to keep up international pressure or for something to happen is to keep everyone aware of the topic and don't allow them to get bored about it.

I guess politicians and the general public got bored of the Nazi uprising in Germany back in the thirties and look at where history led us.

[Traveller]

a picture is worth a thousand words...

Edited by Traveller on Thursday 28th May 16:29

[Fidgits]

my understand was Israel had offered Palestine to go back to the borders of '48, but they refused as they want jerusalem...

which is exactly the same war that was raged back in the crusades...

[beanbag]

Traveller said:

a picture is better than a thousand words...

Edited by Traveller on Thursday 28th May 16:24

Like I said....the reluctance of people to talk about this problem and dismiss it as a can of worms is exactly what the Israeli government wants.

[Traveller]

beanbag said:

Like I said....the reluctance of people to talk about this problem and dismiss it as a can of worms is exactly what the Israeli government wants.

I agree, the problem is that anyone who disagrees with the Israeli stance is instantly branded anti Semitic. The Israeli state and it's policies are no different to the apartheid state 20 years ago, discrimination based on religion not colour. Restricted land ownership or restrictions on where people can live, restricted rights to vote , enclaves created for the undesirables, the state using it power to oppress arbitrarily. But as they have support from the US and UK, so can continue doing this indefinitely.

Not that the Palestinians are blameless, far from it, even their own Arab neighbours are none to keen to have them in their country. Jordan expelled hundreds of thousands after an attempted coup.

Using white phosphorous, heavy artillery and airborne bombing in an civilian environment is blatantly wrong, when you have over a 1000 civilian casualties on one side, and less than 20 civilians casualties on the other, while preventing food , medicine and basic essentials from entering the area. Tells you all you need to know about disproportionate force.

Edited by Traveller on Thursday 28th May 16:41

[Tony*T3]

Agreed. Not to mention indescriminate targetting of civilians. They have no support from me, gotten to the point that I would prefer the state didnt exist.

[AndrewW-G]

Traveller said:

Using white phosphorous, heavy artillery and airborne bombing in an civilian environment is blatantly wrong, when you have over a 1000 civilian casualties on one side, and less than 20 civilians casualties on the other, while preventing food , medicine and basic essentials from entering the area. Tells you all you need to know about disproportionate force.

It doesn’t of course take into account the people killed in Israel by terrorists / suicide bombers etc. The location of the people throwing explosives Israel’s way also doesn’t help keep the civilian casualties down ( before you say it I know it would be a tad suicidal to have a large military base away from the civilian population ) The troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have the same problem when trying to flush out the "enemy".

Neither side are innocent and both should negotiate, but it seems that whenever the Palestinians call a truce or ceasefire it's only to re-arm themselves or if Israel call a truce or ceasefire it's only due to international pressure, Iran's alleged involvement doesn’t help either

Edited by AndrewW-G on Thursday 28th May 16:58

[Pooh]

What I don't understand is why some people seem to get so wound up about how the Israelis treat the Palestinians (who are hardly blameless themselves)but seem oblivious to similar or worse things happening in other areas of the world, e.g. China and the way it behaves.
Is it just a form of antisemitism?

[ewenm]

Pooh said:

What I don't understand is why some people seem to get so wound up about how the Israelis treat the Palestinians (who are hardly blameless themselves)but seem oblivious to similar or worse things happening in other areas of the world, e.g. China and the way it behaves.
Is it just a form of antisemitism?

I suspect it's more to do with what is reported by our media. The middle-east conflict gets a lot more column inches than the Tibetan situation for example.

[JagLover]

Pooh said:

What I don't understand is why some people seem to get so wound up about how the Israelis treat the Palestinians (who are hardly blameless themselves)but seem oblivious to similar or worse things happening in other areas of the world, e.g. China and the way it behaves.
Is it just a form of antisemitism?

That is a good point

The recent conflict in Sri Lanka passed almost unnoticed despite a civilian death toll many multiples of the recent fighting in Gaza.

[Mojocvh]

Pooh said:

What I don't understand is why some people seem to get so wound up about how the Israelis treat the Palestinians (who are hardly blameless themselves)but seem oblivious to similar or worse things happening in other areas of the world, e.g. China and the way it behaves.
Is it just a form of antisemitism?

There you go Traveller , just took (3) 5 posts for that to come out.

Edited by Mojocvh on Thursday 28th May 17:40

[Traveller]

Pooh said:

What I don't understand is why some people seem to get so wound up about how the Israelis treat the Palestinians (who are hardly blameless themselves)but seem oblivious to similar or worse things happening in other areas of the world, e.g. China and the way it behaves.
Is it just a form of antisemitism?

I think it is more the hypocrisy of Isreal, they should better than any nation, understand and have a hatred for oppression and abuse of a almost defenceless people. Yet they are perpetrating exactly that against the Palestinians. Israeli freedom fighters who became presidents of Israel, such as Menachem Begin, were also considered terrorists with bloody hands by Britain once.

Your argument could just as easily have been applied to South Africa 20 years ago, why were people worried about racial discrimination in South Africa, when there is discrimination in lots of other places in the world ? Because it is wrong. Perhaps the Palestinians have better PR than other conflicts, like the Tamil tigers or Nepalese.

China is behaving no different to almost every other super power the world has known, when you have the power it will be used, do you think that Europe or the USA would even consider sanctions, never mind military action, against China for human rights abuses ? Not when the US has Guantanamo, Abu ghraib and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan as its latest additions to it closet.

Ultimately the USA and Europe need to push both sides into an agreement, but the strong Israeli lobby in the US would never let the US have anything but an almost unconditional support for Israel. And so it continues.

Edited by Traveller on Thursday 28th May 17:50

Edited by Traveller on Friday 29th May 10:27

[Pooh]

Traveller said:

Your argument could just as easily have been applied to South Africa 20 years ago, why were people worried about racial discrimination in South Africa, when there is discrimination in lots of other places in the world ?

Very true, exactly the same argument did apply, maybe the left needs something to get all wound up about and now that SA is sorted out(from their point of view)they have moved on to Israel.
By the way I do not support Israel and what it is doing(I favour a two state solution), as I said I just find the focus on it interesting.

[Jasandjules]

What's that you say? People killing each other over who has the best imaginary friend?

[Mclovin]

god i hate religion...