Is the US fed up with politics too?
Discussion
Or do the right-wing in that country have some kind of masterplan.
I was watching Fox News this morning which is always good for a laugh and there was a lot of discussion about something called the 9-12 group and getting back to the real basics of the constitution. The idea of the 9-12 group would appear to be getting back to the mind set that America had the day after 9-11; everyone banding together and helping each other through dark times. And speaking of dark times there seemed to be a very interesting undercurrent to all of this.
The feeling of the people on this programme was that the enemy now are all politicans in the Capitol, Republician and Democrat, were untrustworthy and are all out of themselves (sound familar?). But unlike most of the British nation they were planning to do something about it and it seemed to be centring around guns.
As most of us know because all of the States seem to have a degree of independence from central government they can pass laws which they can then enforce without interference from Washington. However this means that when they elect a (how can I put this?) redneck legistature quite a lot of their time is being taken up with "prising my gun from my cold dead hand," as they feel central government is planning to restrict gun ownership and therefore be able to turn America into a dictatorship & no one would be able to resist because "the army would be the only ones with guns and they would be under government control,"
Montana has already passed laws which they hope will overule the new gun controls that Obama wants to put in place and Texas & Utah are following soon. All three of these states would appear to be Republican but the general theory behind of this is that they are defending the constitution.
However, on the financial situation there also seemed to be a great deal of resentment against some states, especially very liberal California, who have run up huge debts. This resentment seemed to run along the lines of "I don't want my taxes to go to Washington, which they will then give out to prop up these bums," They also seemed to be lot of comparing Obama and his reforms to the setting up of a socialist or even communist state. (Fox News have been calling Obama a socialist ever since he was elected.) It seemed to me that the seed that was being planted very subtley was that if he continues with these reforms, some states will quit the Union in a "The Civilist War,"
So my questions to our American based PHers are these;
Is this really the way people are begining to think over there or is just a right wing plan to undermine Obama by stirring up so much unrest in the red states that, despite his large majority and mandate governing the country becomes impossible?
Excuse the spelling by the way.
I was watching Fox News this morning which is always good for a laugh and there was a lot of discussion about something called the 9-12 group and getting back to the real basics of the constitution. The idea of the 9-12 group would appear to be getting back to the mind set that America had the day after 9-11; everyone banding together and helping each other through dark times. And speaking of dark times there seemed to be a very interesting undercurrent to all of this.
The feeling of the people on this programme was that the enemy now are all politicans in the Capitol, Republician and Democrat, were untrustworthy and are all out of themselves (sound familar?). But unlike most of the British nation they were planning to do something about it and it seemed to be centring around guns.
As most of us know because all of the States seem to have a degree of independence from central government they can pass laws which they can then enforce without interference from Washington. However this means that when they elect a (how can I put this?) redneck legistature quite a lot of their time is being taken up with "prising my gun from my cold dead hand," as they feel central government is planning to restrict gun ownership and therefore be able to turn America into a dictatorship & no one would be able to resist because "the army would be the only ones with guns and they would be under government control,"
Montana has already passed laws which they hope will overule the new gun controls that Obama wants to put in place and Texas & Utah are following soon. All three of these states would appear to be Republican but the general theory behind of this is that they are defending the constitution.
However, on the financial situation there also seemed to be a great deal of resentment against some states, especially very liberal California, who have run up huge debts. This resentment seemed to run along the lines of "I don't want my taxes to go to Washington, which they will then give out to prop up these bums," They also seemed to be lot of comparing Obama and his reforms to the setting up of a socialist or even communist state. (Fox News have been calling Obama a socialist ever since he was elected.) It seemed to me that the seed that was being planted very subtley was that if he continues with these reforms, some states will quit the Union in a "The Civilist War,"
So my questions to our American based PHers are these;
Is this really the way people are begining to think over there or is just a right wing plan to undermine Obama by stirring up so much unrest in the red states that, despite his large majority and mandate governing the country becomes impossible?
Excuse the spelling by the way.
The Hypno-Toad said:
Or do the right-wing in that country have some kind of masterplan.
I was watching Fox News this morning which is always good for a laugh and there was a lot of discussion about something called the 9-12 group and getting back to the real basics of the constitution. The idea of the 9-12 group would appear to be getting back to the mind set that America had the day after 9-11; everyone banding together and helping each other through dark times. And speaking of dark times there seemed to be a very interesting undercurrent to all of this.
The feeling of the people on this programme was that the enemy now are all politicans in the Capitol, Republician and Democrat, were untrustworthy and are all out of themselves (sound familar?). But unlike most of the British nation they were planning to do something about it and it seemed to be centring around guns.
As most of us know because all of the States seem to have a degree of independence from central government they can pass laws which they can then enforce without interference from Washington. However this means that when they elect a (how can I put this?) redneck legistature quite a lot of their time is being taken up with "prising my gun from my cold dead hand," as they feel central government is planning to restrict gun ownership and therefore be able to turn America into a dictatorship & no one would be able to resist because "the army would be the only ones with guns and they would be under government control,"
Montana has already passed laws which they hope will overule the new gun controls that Obama wants to put in place and Texas & Utah are following soon. All three of these states would appear to be Republican but the general theory behind of this is that they are defending the constitution.
However, on the financial situation there also seemed to be a great deal of resentment against some states, especially very liberal California, who have run up huge debts. This resentment seemed to run along the lines of "I don't want my taxes to go to Washington, which they will then give out to prop up these bums," They also seemed to be lot of comparing Obama and his reforms to the setting up of a socialist or even communist state. (Fox News have been calling Obama a socialist ever since he was elected.) It seemed to me that the seed that was being planted very subtley was that if he continues with these reforms, some states will quit the Union in a "The Civilist War,"
So my questions to our American based PHers are these;
Is this really the way people are begining to think over there or is just a right wing plan to undermine Obama by stirring up so much unrest in the red states that, despite his large majority and mandate governing the country becomes impossible?
Excuse the spelling by the way.
Federal Law prevails over State law. So if the gun controls were brought in under Federal Law, then the states can do nothing about it....short of asking for independance from the Government.I was watching Fox News this morning which is always good for a laugh and there was a lot of discussion about something called the 9-12 group and getting back to the real basics of the constitution. The idea of the 9-12 group would appear to be getting back to the mind set that America had the day after 9-11; everyone banding together and helping each other through dark times. And speaking of dark times there seemed to be a very interesting undercurrent to all of this.
The feeling of the people on this programme was that the enemy now are all politicans in the Capitol, Republician and Democrat, were untrustworthy and are all out of themselves (sound familar?). But unlike most of the British nation they were planning to do something about it and it seemed to be centring around guns.
As most of us know because all of the States seem to have a degree of independence from central government they can pass laws which they can then enforce without interference from Washington. However this means that when they elect a (how can I put this?) redneck legistature quite a lot of their time is being taken up with "prising my gun from my cold dead hand," as they feel central government is planning to restrict gun ownership and therefore be able to turn America into a dictatorship & no one would be able to resist because "the army would be the only ones with guns and they would be under government control,"
Montana has already passed laws which they hope will overule the new gun controls that Obama wants to put in place and Texas & Utah are following soon. All three of these states would appear to be Republican but the general theory behind of this is that they are defending the constitution.
However, on the financial situation there also seemed to be a great deal of resentment against some states, especially very liberal California, who have run up huge debts. This resentment seemed to run along the lines of "I don't want my taxes to go to Washington, which they will then give out to prop up these bums," They also seemed to be lot of comparing Obama and his reforms to the setting up of a socialist or even communist state. (Fox News have been calling Obama a socialist ever since he was elected.) It seemed to me that the seed that was being planted very subtley was that if he continues with these reforms, some states will quit the Union in a "The Civilist War,"
So my questions to our American based PHers are these;
Is this really the way people are begining to think over there or is just a right wing plan to undermine Obama by stirring up so much unrest in the red states that, despite his large majority and mandate governing the country becomes impossible?
Excuse the spelling by the way.
Still, it's nice to see that they are starting to doubt their politicians too. For too long the Politicians have treated themselves as a class above the citizen. It's time things changed.
The Hypno-Toad said:
So my questions to our American based PHers are these;
Is this really the way people are begining to think over there or is just a right wing plan to undermine Obama by stirring up so much unrest in the red states that, despite his large majority and mandate governing the country becomes impossible?
If it makes you feel better, I haven't met an Obama supporter in the south here yet.Is this really the way people are begining to think over there or is just a right wing plan to undermine Obama by stirring up so much unrest in the red states that, despite his large majority and mandate governing the country becomes impossible?
As for Obama and gun control, he is doing something very differently and its already started; instead of banning the gun he's going after the components and the ammunition suppliers and tightening up those regulations. My understanding is that he is also planning on increasing the taxation on all these external components to the gun itself. That way he's getting round the gun lobby in the US.
However, its also leading to an huge run on ammunition in the US. Everyone who has a gun is stocking up on ammo right now. Not that they were short on ammo in the first place.
As for Fox, its simply a balance on the dreadfully bias Communist News Network.
On your assumption that everyone in the US should somehow love Obama - here's a clue - 60m odd voted for the other candidate.
tinman0 said:
On your assumption that everyone in the US should somehow love Obama - here's a clue - 60m odd voted for the other candidate.
Thanks for that tinman. I don't really have any opinion on Obama myself. Judging from what we see over here, apart from jetting round the world, he doesn't seem to have done much yet. However he still seems to be better than the last guy, who's reputation was dreadful outside of the US. I get the impression that the gloss has already fallen off Obamas presidency at home and he needs to a get a grip quickly if he isn't going to lose a major amount of the goodwill and support he earned as anyone's better than Bush. I can't judge on what's happening in the States at the moment which is why I'm interested in what American Phers think. My own views on gun control are that the American regulations are too lax but the banning of handguns in the UK was an over-reaction fuelled by a hysterical media in response to a terrible, terrible event.
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Sunday 17th May 06:44
tinman0 said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
So my questions to our American based PHers are these;
Is this really the way people are begining to think over there or is just a right wing plan to undermine Obama by stirring up so much unrest in the red states that, despite his large majority and mandate governing the country becomes impossible?
If it makes you feel better, I haven't met an Obama supporter in the south here yet.Is this really the way people are begining to think over there or is just a right wing plan to undermine Obama by stirring up so much unrest in the red states that, despite his large majority and mandate governing the country becomes impossible?
Edited by Baby Huey on Sunday 17th May 09:18
Going back to the OP`s post. I like this 9-12 idea. Its all about small Govt and is generally not being touted as overly partisan. We need something like it here in Blighty. A party of independents - business people, ex-military, non politico types preferably, they would get straight in. Financing the thing would be a nightmare though. Similar thing happened in the town where i live, 6 independent councillors clubbed together and formed a kind of residents political association, in every election since the main parties havent had a look in!The agenda of the locals was simple, fight for what the majority or the local residents wanted, and not some party line crap.
elster said:
Isn't the whole 9-12 project run by a bit of a mentalist.
He is a bit of a right winger, but luckily loves himself more than anything else. So whatever boosts his ego I'm pretty sure he would say.
It seems to be organised by a guy called Glenn Beck, a commentator on Fox and yes he does seem to be a bit mentalist. However he is mentalist who has access to a major news network in the states to put across his views.He is a bit of a right winger, but luckily loves himself more than anything else. So whatever boosts his ego I'm pretty sure he would say.
Baby Huey said:
tinman0 said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
So my questions to our American based PHers are these;
Is this really the way people are begining to think over there or is just a right wing plan to undermine Obama by stirring up so much unrest in the red states that, despite his large majority and mandate governing the country becomes impossible?
If it makes you feel better, I haven't met an Obama supporter in the south here yet.Is this really the way people are begining to think over there or is just a right wing plan to undermine Obama by stirring up so much unrest in the red states that, despite his large majority and mandate governing the country becomes impossible?
The Hypno-Toad said:
Asked our opinion
There are ideological divisions in the nation. However,the majority of voters are somewhere in the center, willing to tilt toward whatever candidate seems right at that election time. Obama was elected, contrary to what many believe, by crossover voters as oppossed to just black folk or stary-eyed kids who don't know better. My opinion is that 9-12 or other such movements will elevate awareness but not cause a violent rebellion. The likely outcome will be that Obama is voted out in favor of a candidate that is moderate but fiscally conservative. Remember, he did not win by a huge or insurmountable margin. I compare him and his eventual fate to that of Jimmy Carter.
Edited by Jimbeaux on Sunday 17th May 18:49
I don't detect that the US is "fed up" with politics. What I see is that people are intellectually incapable of seeing that you can't just print money to get rid of issues, you can't restructure complex industries in 60 days, you can't do a lot of things promised at minimal budget and in minimal time, when all the information and experience says that things are more expensive and complex than that.
The litmus test for this has been the Chrysler bankrupcy, where a lot of politicians who were pro-bankruptcy to the point of liquidation are waking up to the fact that dealers in their states are losing their franchises, factories are being closed at the OE & supplier levels, and there is reduced competitition. Oh well, too late.
If they think that is bad they haven't seen anything yet compare to when GM declares bankruptcy on June 1st.
The great thing about the US is that there are elections in two years and everybody gets another chance to endorse or reject the way things are being run. In this regard things are much fairer than in Britain.
The litmus test for this has been the Chrysler bankrupcy, where a lot of politicians who were pro-bankruptcy to the point of liquidation are waking up to the fact that dealers in their states are losing their franchises, factories are being closed at the OE & supplier levels, and there is reduced competitition. Oh well, too late.
If they think that is bad they haven't seen anything yet compare to when GM declares bankruptcy on June 1st.
The great thing about the US is that there are elections in two years and everybody gets another chance to endorse or reject the way things are being run. In this regard things are much fairer than in Britain.
GavinPearson said:
I don't detect that the US is "fed up" with politics. What I see is that people are intellectually incapable of seeing that you can't just print money to get rid of issues, you can't restructure complex industries in 60 days, you can't do a lot of things promised at minimal budget and in minimal time, when all the information and experience says that things are more expensive and complex than that.
The litmus test for this has been the Chrysler bankrupcy, where a lot of politicians who were pro-bankruptcy to the point of liquidation are waking up to the fact that dealers in their states are losing their franchises, factories are being closed at the OE & supplier levels, and there is reduced competitition. Oh well, too late.
If they think that is bad they haven't seen anything yet compare to when GM declares bankruptcy on June 1st.
The great thing about the US is that there are elections in two years and everybody gets another chance to endorse or reject the way things are being run. In this regard things are much fairer than in Britain.
Yep, Congressional elections in two years. If folks are unhappy with Obama at that time, they can effectively take away his power by voting out the Congressmen that pass his policies. Now, many Democratic Congressmen represent fairly conservative areas (contrary to popular belief, most Democrats are fairly moderate)and may vote against overly liberal bills to avoid being tossed out at election time. The leaders of the both houses of congress, Pelosi and Reid, are extreme left-leaning liberals; this is in contrast to the majority moderate Democratic members or Republicans. People like those two seem to think that everyone wants what they want, therefore, they run amok. They will eventually run afoul of the more moderate members or cause Obama to look too liberal. The litmus test for this has been the Chrysler bankrupcy, where a lot of politicians who were pro-bankruptcy to the point of liquidation are waking up to the fact that dealers in their states are losing their franchises, factories are being closed at the OE & supplier levels, and there is reduced competitition. Oh well, too late.
If they think that is bad they haven't seen anything yet compare to when GM declares bankruptcy on June 1st.
The great thing about the US is that there are elections in two years and everybody gets another chance to endorse or reject the way things are being run. In this regard things are much fairer than in Britain.
Edited by Jimbeaux on Sunday 17th May 22:14
Bear in mind that Fox News (AKA Faux News or Fixed News) is the de-facto mouthpiece of the ever-shrinking Republican Party. Given that the popularity of the Republican Party is now hovering somewhere below Mexican Swine Flu, they have been forced to spew some pretty extremist (even by their standards) rhetoric just to get anyone's attention. That's why they have been ratcheting-up the fear mongering in a desperate attempt to get anyone to listen to them.
Which is why they continue to trot out the same old lies which have been disproven time and time again; Obama and the Democrats are all socialists and/or communists (right-wingers don't seem to know the difference between the two), Obama is going to take all your guns away, the gays are going to overrun the country and turn all your children gay, Obama is secretly plotting to hand America over to the Muslims...... You know, the typical right-wing tinfoil hat wearing nutjob conspiracy theories.
This is why all the moderate and centrist Republicans have abandoned the party in droves. The inmates are now running the asylum! They continue to pander to the lunatic fringe because that's all they have left.
Cheers,
Madman of the People
Which is why they continue to trot out the same old lies which have been disproven time and time again; Obama and the Democrats are all socialists and/or communists (right-wingers don't seem to know the difference between the two), Obama is going to take all your guns away, the gays are going to overrun the country and turn all your children gay, Obama is secretly plotting to hand America over to the Muslims...... You know, the typical right-wing tinfoil hat wearing nutjob conspiracy theories.
This is why all the moderate and centrist Republicans have abandoned the party in droves. The inmates are now running the asylum! They continue to pander to the lunatic fringe because that's all they have left.
Cheers,
Madman of the People
MadmanO/T People said:
Bear in mind that Fox News (AKA Faux News or Fixed News) is the de-facto mouthpiece of the ever-shrinking Republican Party. Given that the popularity of the Republican Party is now hovering somewhere below Mexican Swine Flu, they have been forced to spew some pretty extremist (even by their standards) rhetoric just to get anyone's attention. That's why they have been ratcheting-up the fear mongering in a desperate attempt to get anyone to listen to them.
Which is why they continue to trot out the same old lies which have been disproven time and time again; Obama and the Democrats are all socialists and/or communists (right-wingers don't seem to know the difference between the two), Obama is going to take all your guns away, the gays are going to overrun the country and turn all your children gay, Obama is secretly plotting to hand America over to the Muslims...... You know, the typical right-wing tinfoil hat wearing nutjob conspiracy theories.
This is why all the moderate and centrist Republicans have abandoned the party in droves. The inmates are now running the asylum! They continue to pander to the lunatic fringe because that's all they have left.
Cheers,
Madman of the People
What drivel. What is occuring is that those very "middle and moderate" folks you speak of have had enough of what certain Congressional leaders are doing. They are trying to check was is seen as an overly liberal rush to the left, to an extreme that many see as para-Social. It is those citizens rights to voice said concerns and take actions. Just because it seems to be against your views does not make them wrong, wacko, nuts, or whatever you call them. It is not the proprietory right of the "left" to protest and organize. These emotions and "movements" are far larger than any one news network; for you to try and explain away these people's activism by claiming it is a news network's plot is simply stupid.Which is why they continue to trot out the same old lies which have been disproven time and time again; Obama and the Democrats are all socialists and/or communists (right-wingers don't seem to know the difference between the two), Obama is going to take all your guns away, the gays are going to overrun the country and turn all your children gay, Obama is secretly plotting to hand America over to the Muslims...... You know, the typical right-wing tinfoil hat wearing nutjob conspiracy theories.
This is why all the moderate and centrist Republicans have abandoned the party in droves. The inmates are now running the asylum! They continue to pander to the lunatic fringe because that's all they have left.
Cheers,
Madman of the People
tinman0 said:
On your assumption that everyone in the US should somehow love Obama - here's a clue - 60m odd voted for the other candidate.
Obama had the biggest share of the vote by a democrat since LBJ. He also had a higher share of the popular vote than either Bill Clinton or George W Bush did. He took both Virginia and Indiana, neither of which has been won by the deocrats since 1964. He also received more votes than any other President in American history, (beating the 62 million polled by Bush Jr in 2004) which is testament to how his candidature served the energise the electorate.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff