Policeman told off. Teacher suspended ...for doing jobs?

[All Jagged Up]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1115...



Discuss nicely. but maybe whisking off to an empty classroom or Head's office may have been wiser given these days of "political correctness/follow prodedures to the letter" before applying basis common sense on the spur of the moment.

What do you think? Personally I think the police officer was right, the teacher was right...
I think a huge over-reaction in the first instance.

Manchester Evening News 14 May said:

Row over boy in cop car
Ruhubia Akbor

May 14, 2009

A MEMBER of staff has been suspended from a primary school and a police officer advised about his conduct after a boy of eight was put in a police car.

Police have confirmed the boy was put in the back of one of their vehicles and then driven out of the grounds of Oldham's Westwood Primary.

It's understood the journey was made without the knowledge of either the boy's parents or the headteacher.

Oldham council has confirmed a member of staff has been suspended.

A joint statement from the council and headteacher, Nicola Brogan, says: "The school is treating this incident very seriously and we are working closely with the council and other partners to ensure a full investigation is carried out."

Meanwhile, the police have confirmed that an officer has been spoken to by senior officers following the incident on April 20.

Greater Manchester Police said that they had been told by a member of staff that a young girl had been allegedly punched by another pupil.

A police officer, who was visiting the school on a separate matter, is then said to have taken the boy to his car to talk to him.

The police statement said: "A number of children were standing around the car, refusing to go back in, so the officer made the decision to drive around the corner.

"The boy was in the car for about 10 minutes before he was returned to the school and at no time was he under arrest.

"This is not normal procedure and the officer should have sought permission before removing the child. The officer has since been advised about his conduct."

In its latest Ofsted inspection the school - which has 240 pupils primarily from the Bangladeshi community - was found to be `good' with `outstanding features'.

Its success was put down to effective leadership from the head and it was described as a `happy, inclusive environment where everyone feels safe' showing `outstanding levels of care'.

The boy's parents did not want to comment.

.

I can well understand why the officer will have driven around the corner. I will bet that kid will not bully again or for a long time anyway.

[Jasandjules]

Sounds like the brat was taught a lesson.

IF only that sort of thing happened more often.

[Spiritual_Beggar]

Why was he put in the car?

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I couldn't see where it says what the boy had done.

[tank slapper]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

Why was he put in the car?

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I couldn't see where it says what the boy had done.

"Greater Manchester Police said that they had been told by a member of staff that a young girl had been allegedly punched by another pupil.

A police officer, who was visiting the school on a separate matter, is then said to have taken the boy to his car to talk to him."

[Martial Arts Man]

Jasandjules said:

Sounds like the brat was taught a lesson.

IF only that sort of thing happened more often.

Indeed.

This elevation in society of children to the equivalent of adults is getting silly.

I hope the copper gave him a good jab in the guts! Show him what it's like to be attacked by someone you have no hope of defending yourself against.

When did it become ok to hit girls anyway? Nobody seems all that bothered these days.....

[Spiritual_Beggar]

tank slapper said:

Spiritual_Beggar said:

Why was he put in the car?

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I couldn't see where it says what the boy had done.

"Greater Manchester Police said that they had been told by a member of staff that a young girl had been allegedly punched by another pupil.

A police officer, who was visiting the school on a separate matter, is then said to have taken the boy to his car to talk to him."

Right,

In that case, well done to that Bobby, and teacher.

I don't care what the boy's parents will say, but if I'm a parent of one of the other kids in teh class, or even the girl, then I'd have wanted that boy well away from my kid!!!

So what if he is 8!!!? He punched another kid! He's a danger! For the 'Safety' of the other kids get him away! At least that's the line I'd take.


This is just another case of PC gone wrong!!!

[zcacogp]

While I habitually mistrust anything I read in the media (they always have their own interests to cover), this does sound distinctly like things went the wrong way.

I'd be interested to know more, to find out whether it is as pathetic as it sounds.


Oli.

[cymtriks]

Martial Arts Man said:

Jasandjules said:

Sounds like the brat was taught a lesson.

IF only that sort of thing happened more often.

Indeed.

This elevation in society of children to the equivalent of adults is getting silly.

I hope the copper gave him a good jab in the guts! Show him what it's like to be attacked by someone you have no hope of defending yourself against.

When did it become ok to hit girls anyway? Nobody seems all that bothered these days.....

You have absolutely no idea how this started.

For all you know the girl in question could have deserved a lot worse. There was certainly no shortgage of girls who could have done with such treatment at my school. Mostly they rely on people like you to get away with it.

Regarding your last comment it becomes OK, in a play ground at least, to hit someone when they come looking for a fight. If my son hit a girl at school I certainly wouldn't be bothered if I thought that he'd been provoked.

[Jasandjules]

cymtriks said:

Regarding your last comment it becomes OK, in a play ground at least, to hit someone when they come looking for a fight. If my son hit a girl at school I certainly wouldn't be bothered if I thought that he'd been provoked.

Then sir, might I suggest that your manners are in need of adjustment.

I was taught that you NEVER hit a woman. End of. You may defend yourself, and this can include restraining a female from hitting you, BUT you may not strike a woman.

[NWTony]

Jasandjules said:

cymtriks said:

Regarding your last comment it becomes OK, in a play ground at least, to hit someone when they come looking for a fight. If my son hit a girl at school I certainly wouldn't be bothered if I thought that he'd been provoked.

Then sir, might I suggest that your manners are in need of adjustment.

I was taught that you NEVER hit a woman. End of. You may defend yourself, and this can include restraining a female from hitting you, BUT you may not strike a woman.

I think you find you never hit a lady. There's quite a difference.

[All Jagged Up]

I have separated countless fighting kids over the years. Once on a stairwell when a fight broke out. Could have been nasty.

We try to teach the children that "fighting" does not solve the argument.

In this case? Small boy punched a girl who may or may not have been teasing him. Police officer observed. Decided to have a "man to man" chat. Kids rubber necked - which could have been "intimidating" to some one not used to this. Hence his drive through the gates.



Teacher on playground duty was suspended for allowing the police officer to take the child out of school grounds without informing the head. He or she perhaps thought no need to do so.

Reactions to this story are mixed amongst the teachers on a teaching forum where I also pasted up for discussion.

[cymtriks]

Jasandjules said:

cymtriks said:

Regarding your last comment it becomes OK, in a play ground at least, to hit someone when they come looking for a fight. If my son hit a girl at school I certainly wouldn't be bothered if I thought that he'd been provoked.

Then sir, might I suggest that your manners are in need of adjustment.

I was taught that you NEVER hit a woman. End of. You may defend yourself, and this can include restraining a female from hitting you, BUT you may not strike a woman.

Then can I suggest that you actually justify your stance with something more substantial than an ad hominen attack.

Just because you were taught something does not make it right. In fact the total lack of justification, apart from an arbitary judgement on manners and character, suggests that you know this.

You don't know what that boy did, for all we know the girl may be bigger than he is and may well have provoked him for a long time.

[All Jagged Up]

Ah! But the police officer saw the incident and decided it warranted a "man to man" talk with the boy. This suggests that the boy was at fault?

But should the officer have been told off over this and the teacher suspended over this incident?

[cymtriks]

TVR Moneypit said:

cymtriks said:

Jasandjules said:

cymtriks said:

Regarding your last comment it becomes OK, in a play ground at least, to hit someone when they come looking for a fight. If my son hit a girl at school I certainly wouldn't be bothered if I thought that he'd been provoked.

Then sir, might I suggest that your manners are in need of adjustment.

I was taught that you NEVER hit a woman. End of. You may defend yourself, and this can include restraining a female from hitting you, BUT you may not strike a woman.

Then can I suggest that you actually justify your stance with something more substantial than an ad hominen attack.

Just because you were taught something does not make it right. In fact the total lack of justification, apart from an arbitary judgement on manners and character, suggests that you know this.

You don't know what that boy did, for all we know the girl may be bigger than he is and may well have provoked him for a long time.

A real man never hits a women. EVER.

God knows I've felt like doing it on several occasions, but like I said, a real man just wouldn't.

This isn't about men and women, it is about children fighting in a playground.

I am still waiting for anyone to justify their stance that the boy must be wrong other than by "I was brought up this way so you must be wrong" closely followed by "anyone who disagrees with me is bad".

If I was told that my son had been carted off in a police car just because he'd hit a girl in the playground I'd want a much bigger reason than "he's a boy so he must be wrong" or "I think anyone who disagrees with what mummy taught me is bad". If I later found out that the girl had hit him first (or otherwise provoked him) I'd be making a proper complaint aswell to any responsible adult that was present.

Just for the record I would not be pleased if my daughter thought that she could get away with causing trouble by playing the "girl card". I would in fact regard any parent that thought the "girl card" was an acceptable excuse for causing trouble as having failed their daughter in moral upbringing.

What about fairness, justice, equality or morality? You could certainly make a case against the assumption that the boy must be wrong on any of those points. Did anyone teach you anything about those issues or do you convieniently ignore them when it contradicts something you can only justify by calling someone else bad?

[All Jagged Up]

cymtriks said:

This isn't about men and women, it is about children fighting in a playground.

I am still waiting for anyone to justify their stance that the boy must be wrong other than by "I was brought up this way so you must be wrong" closely followed by "anyone who disagrees with me is bad".

If I was told that my son had been carted off in a police car just because he'd hit a girl in the playground I'd want a much bigger reason than "he's a boy so he must be wrong" or "I think anyone who disagrees with what mummy taught me is bad".

The officer took him to his car from a friendly chat. Kids crowded around so he drove out of the gate and parked up outside the grounds. In reality - the head's office or empty classroom would have been better.

cymtriks said:

If I later found out that the girl had hit him first (or otherwise provoked him) I'd be making a proper complaint aswell to any responsible adult that was present.

But you do not know who provoked who. In reality - as a teacher - I would have interviewed each child separately to get each side of the story before deciding on the level of discipline. Each set of parents would be informed and if serious enough - we would be sitting down together to try to resolve the playground spat.


Kids can be odd. At throats one moment and best chums the next.

cymtriks said:

Just for the record I would not be pleased if my daughter thought that she could get away with causing trouble by playing the "girl card". I would in fact regard any parent that thought the "girl card" was an acceptable excuse for causing trouble as having failed their daughter in moral upbringing.

I do not think the "girl card" was played. Police Officer saw a playground incident and thought he was helping. The teacher trusted the police officer as a fellow professional but should have suggested a very friendly classroom chat with both children.

I agree that there should be no difference as regards discipline/sanctions/expectations as equality matters.

cymtriks said:

What about fairness, justice, equality or morality? You could certainly make a case against the assumption that the boy must be wrong on any of those points. Did anyone teach you anything about those issues or do you convieniently ignore them when it contradicts something you can only justify by calling someone else bad?

I do not think the other posters were calling the boy "bad" but supporting the police officer and teacher caught up in this situation which the politically correct have, arguably, blown out of proportion by suspensions and reprimands.

[Jasandjules]

cymtriks said:

Then can I suggest that you actually justify your stance with something more substantial than an ad hominen attack.

Just because you were taught something does not make it right. In fact the total lack of justification, apart from an arbitary judgement on manners and character, suggests that you know this.

You don't know what that boy did, for all we know the girl may be bigger than he is and may well have provoked him for a long time.

I don't have any further justification other than what I Believe is Right, and what is wrong. Hitting a female is wrong, there is no justification for doing so. That is the end of it to my mind.

I may be old fashioned, but that is what I think.

[s2art]

Jasandjules said:

cymtriks said:

Then can I suggest that you actually justify your stance with something more substantial than an ad hominen attack.

Just because you were taught something does not make it right. In fact the total lack of justification, apart from an arbitary judgement on manners and character, suggests that you know this.

You don't know what that boy did, for all we know the girl may be bigger than he is and may well have provoked him for a long time.

I don't have any further justification other than what I Believe is Right, and what is wrong. Hitting a female is wrong, there is no justification for doing so. That is the end of it to my mind.

I may be old fashioned, but that is what I think.

You would soon change your mind if you had to deal with an aggressive slapper attacking you in many a city cetenre. (Glasgow & Liverpool spring to mind)

[Jasandjules]

cymtriks said:

Then can I suggest that you actually justify your stance with something more substantial than an ad hominen attack.

Just because you were taught something does not make it right. In fact the total lack of justification, apart from an arbitary judgement on manners and character, suggests that you know this.

You don't know what that boy did, for all we know the girl may be bigger than he is and may well have provoked him for a long time.

I don't have any further justification other than what I Believe is Right, and what is wrong. Hitting a female is wrong, there is no justification for doing so. That is the end of it to my mind.

I may be old fashioned, but that is what I think.