police cause accidents

[new in today]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1177100/Po...

I would have put this in SP&L but it seems its 'political' to criticise the Police...

I am amazed noone else has posted this story...

Police cause nine crashes a day and have killed 150 people since 2004

[Mr_annie_vxr]

Here we go again with another article written with an agenda and then facts made that support it. Still the daily mirror only did this a few days ago so the mail must be seething.

They can't even come up with an original story.

As for killing 150 people. How many of those crashes were the police either held at fault for or the police car the vehicle that struck the person? How many of those dead are police officers?

[new in today]

Which paper says what is irrelevant in this case what does appear relevant is this..

'A 2007 Independent Police Complaints Commission report criticised officers for taking unnecessary risks in high-speed chases and called for compulsory national guidelines to be drawn up by the Home Office and the Association of Chief Police Officers.

Recommendations included giving control rooms a bigger role in deciding when a chase was necessary – and that only suitably trained drivers should engage in pursuits.

But since then national rules on police chases have not been implemented.'

This story to be fair does include ALL police drivers wether trained or not so does include 'panda' car drivers not just Traffic Officers.
However one would expect ordinary officers driving cars to be able to drive around without causing trouble even if in my area they are often seen on mobile phones while driving or stopped at T junctions with no intention of moving but purely to illegaly park to get a view of motorists phone/seatbelt misdemeanors.

Edited by new in today on Thursday 7th May 08:02

[Mr_annie_vxr]

Well it is as it's already been quoted in another thread and says a lot that one major paper in an effort to sell copy now quotes another. Even more so when they don't actually break the information down and it's incorrect.

Control rooms do decide if pursuits carry on and all forces I know of limit which drivers can engage in pursuits.

[s3fella]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

How many of those dead are police officers?

So that's ok then is it, so long as a police car only kills and policeman, it does not count??

I've flipping heard it all now!

[s3fella]

I dont know what the current figures are but about 10 years ago I worked for an organisatin that had the largest fleet of vehicles in the UK, many many tens of thousands.
Typically, we had an (IMO) appaling accident record with 6-8 deaths of people a year in accidents involving one of our vehicles. About 50% were deemed to be our driver at fault in some way.
We made major changes to our fleet as a result of these deaths including renewing vans with ones without driver compartment bulkheads, to increase visability, (you'd be surprised how many peole were just reversed over while walking behind the vans.)

My point is that a 24hr operation, the (then) largest fleet in Britain killed about 6-8 people a year. And that seemed awful to us as an organisation. I'd hope the trained police drivers would be involved in less than that.

[Mr_annie_vxr]

s3fella said:

Mr_annie_vxr said:

How many of those dead are police officers?

So that's ok then is it, so long as a police car only kills and policeman, it does not count??

I've flipping heard it all now!

Not my point, the point being made was as if 150 'innocent' civilians had been mowed down. Which they have not.

How many of the non-fatal crashes were result of t-pacs.

How many 100,000's miles do police drive on emergency status let alone normaly. How many of these 9 crashes a day are simple parking dings or little knocks.

My point is there is nowhere near enough information in that article to work out how bad or not the situation is. Indeed figures have fallen despite the widening of the definition of a pursuit. It does not tell you how many of the fatals were the fault of the officers.

Far more training and procedure exists for the police than any company as well as spot checks, black boxes, gps and constant re-tests.

[s3fella]

Still seem to have there fair share of cock ups though, don't they?
Even with lack of training we only had 6-8 road death involvements a year?

Of course our drivers were gps monitored and were sacked straight away if found to be driving like eejuts.

[Mr_annie_vxr]

s3fella said:

Still seem to have there fair share of cock ups though, don't they?
Even with lack of training we only had 6-8 road death involvements a year?

Of course our drivers were gps monitored and were sacked straight away if found to be driving like eejuts.

I didn't realise that you actively persued criminals and were expected to drive in emergency situations.

From memory it's normal about 1-2 deaths a year on emergency calls, the rest are normaly persuit related and are either those being persued or those hit by the persued. So I'd say you 6-8 is attrocious in comparison. 135,000 officers. 60/-70000 others employees. Something like 1,000,000 miles or more driven by each force of which 100,000's are on emergency status. Some of the strictest training and monitoring in the world. It's not as great as it could be it's getting better but you need to get it in perspective.

I think stats showed that 1-11 of 1000 pursuits ended with an injury. ( ipcc figures).