Does Labour have any chance at all?
Discussion
Morning all. I think I know what the general consensus will be but stay with me whilst I ask a silly question.
Are any of you unsure that Labour is heading for a calamitous result in the next General Election? Can you conceive of any circumstances that could lead to them pulling it back e.g. could Gordo go as early as the Summer if local elections reflect overwhelming dissatisfaction? Is that the real General Election?
My own view is that I can not think how a man with such appalling gaucheness and lack of consensus-building leadership skills could have EVER led them to an election win, let alone now. The man completely hid himself away in the Blair years without building any leadership skills and, basically, grumped his way into power in the backdrop of a weakened post-war Blair.
Are any of you unsure that Labour is heading for a calamitous result in the next General Election? Can you conceive of any circumstances that could lead to them pulling it back e.g. could Gordo go as early as the Summer if local elections reflect overwhelming dissatisfaction? Is that the real General Election?
My own view is that I can not think how a man with such appalling gaucheness and lack of consensus-building leadership skills could have EVER led them to an election win, let alone now. The man completely hid himself away in the Blair years without building any leadership skills and, basically, grumped his way into power in the backdrop of a weakened post-war Blair.
Unfortunately, you can never underestimate the stupidy of people - PH is not at all representative of the average UK voter.
That said, I can't see it myself. The only glimmer would be to have a new leader who slays the current lot and the British economy has a miraculous revovery over night.
So... it ain't gonna hapen!
That said, I can't see it myself. The only glimmer would be to have a new leader who slays the current lot and the British economy has a miraculous revovery over night.
So... it ain't gonna hapen!
Hard to see, right now.
But, the media have been complicit in this for entire time and, although they seem to have 'grown some' recently, it may not last. Hell, half of them seem to be married to the 'fixers' themselves.
And, as already said, it is hard to exaggerate just how stupid, or self-serving, the population can be.
But I suspect Gordon will never gain the legitimacy that he so badly seeks. Which is a cheery thought.
But, the media have been complicit in this for entire time and, although they seem to have 'grown some' recently, it may not last. Hell, half of them seem to be married to the 'fixers' themselves.
And, as already said, it is hard to exaggerate just how stupid, or self-serving, the population can be.
But I suspect Gordon will never gain the legitimacy that he so badly seeks. Which is a cheery thought.
Difficult to say. Margaret Thatcher was way behind in the polls in 82 and then the Argies obliged by invading the Falklands and she swept home with a landslide in 83. Nobody gave John Major a snowballs chance in hell of winning in 92 and then the Welsh windbag Kinnock obliged by celebrating too early and the British public responded by putting Major back in. So miracles do happen.
I think in Browns case it is unlikely as his party is mired in sleaze and the situation is more akin to 97 than 92. Also on a personal level he is probably the least charismatic pm in history and the one that voters are least likely to empathise with. I would think that as things stand he has very little chance of ever having his premiership legitimised by an election victory. It's probable that only 2 things could see a Labour victory next year - a huge Tory cock up or the removal of Brown by "men in grey suits" to be replaced by a bland "safe pair of hands" with some voter appeal like Alan Johnson. The first is more likely than the second but it would probably take a combination of both to pull it off. As long as Cameron keeps his nose clean and keeps the troops in line he should be waving to the crowds outside Number 10 next May.
I think in Browns case it is unlikely as his party is mired in sleaze and the situation is more akin to 97 than 92. Also on a personal level he is probably the least charismatic pm in history and the one that voters are least likely to empathise with. I would think that as things stand he has very little chance of ever having his premiership legitimised by an election victory. It's probable that only 2 things could see a Labour victory next year - a huge Tory cock up or the removal of Brown by "men in grey suits" to be replaced by a bland "safe pair of hands" with some voter appeal like Alan Johnson. The first is more likely than the second but it would probably take a combination of both to pull it off. As long as Cameron keeps his nose clean and keeps the troops in line he should be waving to the crowds outside Number 10 next May.
TVR Moneypit said:
Asterix said:
Unfortunately, you can never underestimate the stupidy of people - PH is not at all representative of the average UK voter.
Very true.
I know a great many so called 'profesionals' who squarly blame of all the Labour partys ills on Lady Thatcher and the Conservatives.
Mr E said:
Jasandjules said:
Who does The Sun support?
Horrifyingly, that's a very important question.The reason it has to back the winner is to ensure that they retain power. If they back the loser, they lose power (and face) themselves, and their power with the new PM and party will be that much less - for the simple reason that the winning party will owe them less.
So, the Sun will back whoever is the favourite, which right now are the Tories with a 19 point lead.
Reminds me of 1997, when the tories were the walking dead, and they knew it.
Now, same sleaze, economy in ruins, government fighting an internal war for the post-election new leader. Only difference is the opposition doesn't have a truly charismatic leader.
Depends what and who gets covered in s
t when expenses are published in July.....
Now, same sleaze, economy in ruins, government fighting an internal war for the post-election new leader. Only difference is the opposition doesn't have a truly charismatic leader.
Depends what and who gets covered in s
t when expenses are published in July.....eldar said:
Reminds me of 1997, when the tories were the walking dead, and they knew it.
Now, same sleaze, economy in ruins, government fighting an internal war for the post-election new leader. Only difference is the opposition doesn't have a truly charismatic leader.
Depends what and who gets covered in st when expenses are published in July.....
Not so sure.Now, same sleaze, economy in ruins, government fighting an internal war for the post-election new leader. Only difference is the opposition doesn't have a truly charismatic leader.
Depends what and who gets covered in s
t when expenses are published in July.....The problem is that the press have it in for Labour.
A very simple thing about the UK press is, what goes up must come down. Labour are coming down, and the press are working hard at it. I think what is taking the press by surprise is just how easy it is, and considering they've been tipped off that 3 Labour MPs are of the walking dead, this isn't going to abate anytime soon.
The other issue is that the press also want to bring Brown down, especially over the pensions thing from 97. What he did to UK pensions was absolutely disgusting. They have failed to pin it on him 3 times now (the last time they nearly got him), but they will get him good and proper over that.
tinman0 said:
eldar said:
Reminds me of 1997, when the tories were the walking dead, and they knew it.
Now, same sleaze, economy in ruins, government fighting an internal war for the post-election new leader. Only difference is the opposition doesn't have a truly charismatic leader.
Depends what and who gets covered in st when expenses are published in July.....
Not so sure.Now, same sleaze, economy in ruins, government fighting an internal war for the post-election new leader. Only difference is the opposition doesn't have a truly charismatic leader.
Depends what and who gets covered in s
t when expenses are published in July.....The problem is that the press have it in for Labour.
A very simple thing about the UK press is, what goes up must come down. Labour are coming down, and the press are working hard at it. I think what is taking the press by surprise is just how easy it is, and considering they've been tipped off that 3 Labour MPs are of the walking dead, this isn't going to abate anytime soon.
The other issue is that the press also want to bring Brown down, especially over the pensions thing from 97. What he did to UK pensions was absolutely disgusting. They have failed to pin it on him 3 times now (the last time they nearly got him), but they will get him good and proper over that.
Agree entirely about pensions.
tinman0 said:
The problem is that the press have it in for Labour.
Eh? Have it in for them? Simply highlighting the sleaze which they admonished the Tories for?!?! Stealing our pensions, raising taxes, p***ng away cash on Quangos, robbing the public for their expenses, all the while stopping the Gurkhas coming to live here !!
It's like the Labour scum thought about what would p**s off the public, then went with that as their policies !
Jasandjules said:
tinman0 said:
The problem is that the press have it in for Labour.
Eh? Have it in for them? Simply highlighting the sleaze which they admonished the Tories for?!?! Stealing our pensions, raising taxes, p***ng away cash on Quangos, robbing the public for their expenses, all the while stopping the Gurkhas coming to live here !!
It's like the Labour scum thought about what would p**s off the public, then went with that as their policies !
The Daily Mail is doing a very interesting balancing act in that it is reporting Tory sleaze (in the expenses row) as well right now, probably to stop Tory sleaze being brought into the public later on (eg pre-empt other broadcasters).
I am getting old enough to say, "When I were a lad.........."
My dad ended the war with only the clothes he stood up in, a wife and me. He worked hard and "got on", despite having a crippling war injury. You would think he would have been Labour fodder, but he never was. He told me that you had to experience a Labour Government to know how bad it could really be.
We are now living through the death throes of another disastrous experiment with socialism, the tax, tax, tax and spend, spend, but not on the things that matter, but on those who keep Labour in government, the feckless and work-shy.
They are nothing but traitors the real working class. They are morally corrupt, intellectually inadequate and incapable of seeing and tell it as it really is. They all deserve to rot in the hot place.
My dad ended the war with only the clothes he stood up in, a wife and me. He worked hard and "got on", despite having a crippling war injury. You would think he would have been Labour fodder, but he never was. He told me that you had to experience a Labour Government to know how bad it could really be.
We are now living through the death throes of another disastrous experiment with socialism, the tax, tax, tax and spend, spend, but not on the things that matter, but on those who keep Labour in government, the feckless and work-shy.
They are nothing but traitors the real working class. They are morally corrupt, intellectually inadequate and incapable of seeing and tell it as it really is. They all deserve to rot in the hot place.
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